Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Bootstrap
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby Bootstrap » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:03 pm

temporal1 wrote:i believe trump is speaking to mandates that overload BUSINESS with red tape, and, with taxes and fees that increase costs, one on top of another.


Here's an overview of laws and regulations that affect small businesses. I've been affected by some of them in two small businesses I ran at times (a consulting business and a flute and fife making business), other people here have run small businesses:

https://www.sba.gov/starting-business/learn-about-business-laws

I think most of us care about things like truth in advertising, treating employees fairly, preventing financial fraud, protecting the environment, etc. I think most of us know that these things can get out of hand, and that the sheer number of regulations can really complicate running a small business - especially a small business that has employees.

Which regulations would people most like to see us get rid of? Any current or former small business owners want to weigh in on that?

  • Advertising & Marketing Law
    Learn the basic rules when it comes to advertising, labeling and marketing your products or services.
  • Employment & Labor Law
    Hiring your first employee or building your business team requires you to comply with a special area of law. This guide will help ensure your small business follows employment and labor laws.
  • Finance Law
    Learn about the financial laws that protect businesses, investors and customers and how you can comply.
  • Intellectual Property Law
    Learn how intellectual property law can protect your business interests and find out how to register a trademark or service mark, file a patent or copyright your work.
  • Online Business Law
    Whether selling on eBay, or operating an e-commerce site, there are several laws that you must comply with such as how and when to collect sales tax. Learn more about laws for online businesses.
  • Privacy Law
    Learn how intellectual property law can protect your business interests and find out how to register a trademark or service mark, file a patent or copyright your work.
  • Environmental Regulations
    Laws to protect the environment could impact your small business. Refer to this guide to find out how to comply with environmental laws.
  • Regulation of Financial Contracts
    If you are conducting business transactions outside of your state, you need to comply with the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). Learn more about UCC requirements.
  • Workplace Safety & Health Law
    Learn more about a variety of tools, guides and training materials that can help you comply with occupational safety and health laws.
  • Foreign Workers & Employee Eligibility
    Be sure to understand all laws and regulations about employee eligibility as you prepare to hire employees.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

Bootstrap
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby Bootstrap » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:06 pm

temporal1 wrote:i hope 2 for 1 works well.


I would love to see him succeed at getting rid of unnecessary regulations, while leaving the important ones in place. I don't yet understand how the process would work. In practice, would it be so hard to agree which two regulations should be eliminated that even important new regulations cannot be passed?

So I'd like to know who is going to review existing legislation to make proposals on what to revoke, and how that combines with the process of passing new regulations. To succeed, these details will have to be fleshed out. Until they are, it's hard to say whether it will succeed or not.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

User avatar
mike
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:32 pm
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby mike » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:44 pm

I wish that the government would adjust regulations based on the opinions of field inspectors. Many long-time inspectors in the food industry for example have been frustrated by the increasing complexity of the food code in my state, and it seems to me one of their primary roles these days is helping businesses comply with the letter of the law by figuring out a loophole or workaround. For example the PA food code requires us to have a utility sink, which means a drain in which to pour dirty water from a mop bucket. For years we have always dumped our mop water in a ditch outside. But when that regulation came about, our inspector labeled one of our stainless steel ware-washing sinks a "utility sink" to satisfy the regulation. It would be far more hazardous to health and safety to actually dump our dirty water down that sink. But for years, a large sign has proclaimed that sink a "utility sink" to satisfy the regulation.

Any inspector worth his salt can make common sense recommendations on how to comply with the law. They could also pass recommendations up the chain the other way, but I've talked to inspectors who tried and failed at that. For example, when the law was passed many years ago disallowing bare hand contact with read to eat foods, it was our inspector's observation that it was counterproductive to the extreme. He said people working with food are typically constantly washing their hands. People who wear gloves often have little concept of what all their gloves have touched, and consequently the food they are handling becomes far more exposed to dirt or pathogens through gloves than it ever would have with bare hands.

I don't know if eliminating all the regulations would be beneficial. I think there are reasons for many of them. And the fact is that with the culture this has created, businesses won't do more than the minimum of what is required. We have let the government do our thinking for us, and so to just take regs away might be problematic. There are people in business who need the laws to keep them serving food that is safe. Not me of course. :)
2 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3

Bootstrap
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby Bootstrap » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:22 pm

mike wrote:I wish that the government would adjust regulations based on the opinions of field inspectors.


I couldn't agree more. Let the people who actually see what's going on and interact directly with the businesses have a lot of influence. Politicians and bureaucrats can't be the experts unless they listen to them.

It's a lot like the politicians who have never taught but want to micromanage teachers in the classroom ...
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

appleman2006
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:50 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Mennonite

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby appleman2006 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:22 pm

Here is the thing. We have so many rules and regulations that I will bet just about anything that all of you break the rules far more times than what even you are aware of. It simply is no longer possible to obey all the rules and so what happens is that people actually stop trying. They know that especially if they are small and are a little bit careful and a little bit lucky they can fly under the radar sometimes for years.

I would argue that the smaller a business is the more likely it is that this happens. It becomes physically impossible for a very small business to do all of the paperwork and things that need to be done in all departments. I can speak from experience that as we have grown it has become easier to be in compliance on far more issues.

The fact still remains that many rules are open to interpretation. Often they are written to simply cover the government's liability should something bad happen down the road.

I do not have answers but I do know that anarchy will fast become the result of our over regulated society and perhaps we are already closer to that than we think. Small businessmen in particular will eventually throw up their hands and leave he business world all together if things do not change. Many already have.

I have no idea if the 2 for 1 rule is a good or workable rule. But it does provide a goal and an incentive, as well as a way to measure change, something that is often missing in government regs. . And I am absolutely confident that it will not be hard to eliminate at least 2 rules that do almost nothing every time you really need another good rule.
1 x

temporal1
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Affiliation: less than the least

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby temporal1 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:23 pm

i was kinna hoping mike and appleman would weigh in on this topic.
this forum has no shortage of independent business folks.

small businessmen have complained for decades about over-regulation, esp regulations that cost money, but are not based in common sense (as mike described one fine example.)

no one is suggesting no laws.

if 2 for 1 is "noticed served" that the "law-making racket" is about to come under well-earned scrutiny, then, proceed.

i cannot count the number of small businesses in my county that have gone out of business in the last 8 years. some established for decades. few replaced. who can afford to go into business?

at one point, Robert shared a link that listed licensing fees (taxes) for all sorts of endeavors .. just then, my state added a license for picking up road kill! o.the.irony.

i doubt there is any business person who is without some personal valid complaint/observation.

i have been going to the same woman to cut my hair for about 30 years.
during one visit she shared about licensing fees they must pay to have the shop open.
she said, in the past, these fees were to cover health dept inspections, to ensure safe operating procedures. however, she said it had been many years since they had been visited! - the state demands+takes their money, does not inspect.

i think of this now, every time i read of increases in licensing fees, and new licensing requirements. it's about revenue. [who's minding the (gov) store?] the U.S was structured for the citizenry to have that responsibility .. or else .. (or else, we would end up "here.") :P

time will tell. plenty of room for improvement.
0 x
formerly Temporal1

“The most extraordinary thing in the world is an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:01 pm

If you want to see what happens in an "unregulated" society, just visit China, where there is a unregulated free for all right now. Very few inspections or standards, at least that can't be solved for a small "fee."

All of the parents from the postdocs I work with that return from the states with infants take CASES of formula when they go back to China. They don't trust stuff in the PRC. I guess furniture coating in the powder might be a bit of a problem.......


J.M.
1 x

temporal1
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Affiliation: less than the least

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby temporal1 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:06 pm

Judas Maccabeus wrote:If you want to see what happens in an "unregulated" society, just visit China, where there is a unregulated free for all right now. Very few inspections or standards, at least that can't be solved for a small "fee."

All of the parents from the postdocs I work with that return from the states with infants take CASES of formula when they go back to China. They don't trust stuff in the PRC. I guess furniture coating in the powder might be a bit of a problem.......
J.M.
no one is suggesting no laws.
:)
that's a big leap, from gross over-regulation, literally beyond either compliance or enforcement, to "unregulated" society.

possibly Libertarians propose this (?) .. i don't know.
0 x
formerly Temporal1

“The most extraordinary thing in the world is an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children.” ― G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Jazman
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:30 am
Affiliation: Lanc Menno Conf

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby Jazman » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:39 pm

mike wrote: I think there are reasons for many of them. And the fact is that with the culture this has created, businesses won't do more than the minimum of what is required. We have let the government do our thinking for us, and so to just take regs away might be problematic. There are people in business who need the laws to keep them serving food that is safe.
I second this evaluation. I know some conscientious truckers who complain about the red tape, but I'm thankful there's enough inconvenience in place that keeps in check the many who would abuse their privileges to the harm of others. Maybe some of the over-regulation has exacerbated it, but there's a deep-rooted american my-way "lawlessness" that I'm thankful is kept in check by regulations. Maybe if americans in general were more communal/group oriented and not so individualistically selfish, we wouldn't need so many regulations?
1 x
What happens when the liturgies from the days of the Moral Majority train evangelicals to love America as much as Jesus, which then leads to an incessant longing within churches to “make America great again!”? - Rev. Robert Cunningham

temporal1
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Affiliation: less than the least

Re: Eliminate business regs, 2-for-1

Postby temporal1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:43 am

Jazman wrote:
mike wrote: I think there are reasons for many of them.
And the fact is that with the culture this has created, businesses won't do more than the minimum of what is required.

We have let the government do our thinking for us, and so to just take regs away might be problematic. There are people in business who need the laws to keep them serving food that is safe.
I second this evaluation. I know some conscientious truckers who complain about the red tape, but I'm thankful there's enough inconvenience in place that keeps in check the many who would abuse their privileges to the harm of others.

Maybe some of the over-regulation has exacerbated it, but there's a
deep-rooted american my-way "lawlessness" :? .. that I'm thankful is kept in check by regulations. Maybe if americans in general were more communal/group oriented and not so individualistically selfish, we wouldn't need so many regulations?
in cyberspace .. how soon we forget ..

the U.S. as a "nation of laws" goes back a long way (i'm not researching for this purpose.)

it was taught in public schools, in homes, and churches, for as long as i recall .. based on the belief that U.S. laws were the primary reason folks would sacrifice to immigrate, to escape lawlessness, to have the opportunity to work to earn the privilege of freedom and respect.
for Christian believers, respect for law was taught as being pleasing to God.

true, there have been localized times of lawlessness. the New Salem witch hunts, the early west, the south has had its share. today, many urban areas struggle. :(

and, true, there is an independent spirit, and dislike of burdensome law, "taxation without representation," and so on. but these do not equate to "lawlessness." imho.

the link below has a video, a SPOOF, that documents recent presidents clinton and obama speaking on the U.S. as a nation of laws. it's a spoof, and, it's generally off-topic for this thread, so, please, don't be tempted to bunny trail. please. :)

the text contains some unsavory, unnecessary language (i would ignore the text) the video, a spoof, makes the point about "the U.S. is a nation of laws."

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/02/04/ ... 6-31557065

i had no idea trump would initiate a 2 for 1 "house cleaning" approach. :shock:

many have complained about runaway law-making for years+years.
here is a tangible way to respond to it.

there is a need. we can hope it will be effective.
----------
regarding Mike's good points -
there will always be those that do the minimum - or less (see appleman's post above.)
frankly, today, there is so much law, it can be BOTH impossible to comply, AND impossible to enforce.

:arrow: there is no indication trump is out to defy health department regulations. :shock:
where do these ideas come from?? :?

many business owners say they choose to EXCEED regulations .. after all, one outbreak of illness/death will turn customers away quicker than anything!

no question, lots+lots of people turn to government for all answers; it's unhealthy .. it can change.
no problem is too big for God. :D
0 x
formerly Temporal1

“The most extraordinary thing in the world is an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children.” ― G.K. Chesterton


Return to “Current Events and Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest