Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Bootstrap
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Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:39 am

At the National Prayer Breakfast, after praying for Arnold Scharzennegger's ratings on The Apprentice, Trump vowed to allow churches to endorse political candidates from the pulpit:

The president also declared that he would work to repeal the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits some tax-exempt groups from endorsing political candidates. And he pledged to protect religious freedom.

“I will get rid of and totally destroy the Johnson Amendment and allow our representatives of faith to speak freely and without fear of retribution,” Trump said. “I want to express clearly today to the American people that my administration will do everything in its power to defend and protect religious liberty in our land.”
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:57 pm

Bootstrap wrote:At the National Prayer Breakfast, after praying for Arnold Scharzennegger's ratings on The Apprentice, Trump vowed to allow churches to endorse political candidates from the pulpit:

The president also declared that he would work to repeal the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits some tax-exempt groups from endorsing political candidates. And he pledged to protect religious freedom.

“I will get rid of and totally destroy the Johnson Amendment and allow our representatives of faith to speak freely and without fear of retribution,” Trump said. “I want to express clearly today to the American people that my administration will do everything in its power to defend and protect religious liberty in our land.”


UGGGGGGGH! If you want the divide in society to become greater, make the only major nonpartisan institution in society a branch of the _________party. (Fill in blank with whatever you like)

I do not miss the pressure to "get behind good "christian" (Republican) candidates!

J.M.
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temporal1
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby temporal1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:18 pm

Judas Maccabeus wrote:UGGGGGGGH! If you want the divide in society to become greater, make the only major nonpartisan institution in society a branch of the _________party. (Fill in blank with whatever you like)

I do not miss the pressure to "get behind good "christian" (Republican) candidates!
J.M.
hmm. :?
JM, i appreciate your view on many matters, i'm not following your response here.
"the standard" for political activism in churches lies within liberal ("un-churches") who value and formally chase-after politics. these folks have caused division in all churches, all denoms. empty pews reflect the influence.

i suppose i would prefer there be no human law to prohibit, BUT, either way, that wise pastors+laity would freely choose not to participate.

in all honesty, laws prohibiting are not effective.
those who desire politics find ways to indulge in them. imho. :-|
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Valerie
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby Valerie » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:44 pm

Wonder if the Anabaptist people would see him as somewhat of a modern day Constantine- I know PRESIDENT Trump (I prefer to have respect for the office, after all according to Romans 13 'he is God's minister') has felt and stated that he has seen Christians being treated unfairly (think, lawsuits against those who did not wish to give their business to support a gay marriage) and laws changing which lead people to be anti-Christian-

So- is any of this reminiscent of what Constantine was trying to do for the persecuted Church at all to y'all?
I appreciate that he said "I need God more than ever now" - I don't recall a president saying that. I'm so thankful people are praying for him- we made it practice to pray for President Obama-

Endorsing political candidates from the Pulpit? Well- I don't know- I think a pastor may speak about policies that are ungodly and evil, being overturned- often one doesn't have to mention a name, to know who they would be talking about.

Our present Pastor said he was called to Preach the Gospel. He will preach, what the Gospel and Word of God says- that makes it much more obvious who one would vote for-(imo).

I'm thankful he's attending prayer meetings, and supported by people like Franklin Graham, James Dobson- and many that have had concerns for the grievous direction of the laws of this land- many have hope now that are pro-life- they KNEW their hopes would be dashed if the election would have turned out with Clinton.
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ohio jones
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby ohio jones » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:38 am

Valerie wrote:So- is any of this reminiscent of what Constantine was trying to do for the persecuted Church at all to y'all?

Not at all, IMO (nor is there any comparison in the type or intensity of persecution). It's simply a quid pro quo; he couldn't have been elected without the Evangelical Right, so now he's holding up his end of the Deal. He said that quite explicitly in the Gorsuch nomination, and this is another part of the package.
Valerie wrote:Endorsing political candidates from the Pulpit? Well- I don't know- I think a pastor may speak about policies that are ungodly and evil, being overturned- often one doesn't have to mention a name, to know who they would be talking about.

That's legal now, of course; removing financial consequences from full political endorsement would make it even easier to distinguish churches that promote civil religion from those that practice Christianity. I suspect he's looking ahead 4 years and gambling that those who endorse him will outnumber those who endorse his opponent. Pretty good odds, I think, considering the empty pews t1 mentions.
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MaxPC
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby MaxPC » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:26 am

In my experience: I've visited churches that address political issues from a Biblical perspective (i.e. homosexuality, persecution of religious institutions, abortion, euthanasia...). When speaking to the issue, the Biblical basis was taught.

Then I've visited churches that were all cliches and joke telling from the pulpit.

I've never heard a pastor endorse a party or candidate either in a private setting or a pulpit setting. They only spoke to the issues that are sometimes present in political platforms and did so vis a vis church teaching. This was crucial because of the confusion that results when politicos try to assert that our church allows abortion, euthanasia or homosexuality: which it most emphatically does not. One of those politicians was subsequently excommunicated for claiming she could teach in the name of the church and against all advisements continued to defy the church on these matters.

That said, the nice thing about two feet is that we can always use them to go to another church when we don't care for the recurring sermons. Voting with your feet is the best way to deal with any of these scenarios. Top down governmental legislation doesn't work for Christians because when a government interferes with a church, persecution is the outcome.
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Robert
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby Robert » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:36 am

You may want to read about the Black Robed Regiment to understand what is behind this.

I agree with OJ, this is part of the loyalty he is showing the Evangelicals that supported him. It is also a liberty thing. The Johnson Amendment is almost unenforceable since it is overshadowed by the 1st Amendment.
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Valerie
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby Valerie » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:12 am

Robert wrote:You may want to read about the Black Robed Regiment to understand what is behind this.

I agree with OJ, this is part of the loyalty he is showing the Evangelicals that supported him. It is also a liberty thing. The Johnson Amendment is almost unenforceable since it is overshadowed by the 1st Amendment.


Interesting about the Black Robed Regiment-
I agree with OJ- but why would he have choses conservative Christianity persuasion to begin with? Does a 70 year old, wealthy man, who has known success all his life, has successful children (who seem like wonderful people in many respects!), power--- even DESIRE this position to begin with?
I've questioned this over and over- he should be looking forward to those 'golden years' but instead he seems to feel he can make a positive, conservative, 'sane' difference to stop this runaway train of immorality on the left- he's not even getting paid for it so it is volunteer work!
He doesn't ? Could it be not only does he see that ban as a 'gag order' and actually believes that Christians make a positive difference in this country overall? Maybe he would agree with the Black Robed Regiment-in these days we live.
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PeterG
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby PeterG » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:24 pm

I see this issue very much like I see the recently discussed horse-diaper issue. From a freedom-of-speech perspective I'd like to see the Johnson Amendment done away with, while recognizing that the real-world effect is likely to be an even greater and more lamentable politicization of American churches. :-|
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RZehr
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Re: Endorsing political candidates from the pulpit

Postby RZehr » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:25 pm

PeterG wrote:I see this issue very much like I see the recently discussed horse-diaper issue. From a freedom-of-speech perspective I'd like to see the Johnson Amendment done away with, while recognizing that the real-world effect is likely to be an even greater and more lamentable politicization of American churches. :-|

Exactly what I was thinking.
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