Presidential elections, for whom are you?

[gcdonner]

Yes we should definitely be praying for this nation first and foremost. Yes our citizenship is in the Kingdom and the Kingdom should be our main focus. However, we cannot overlook that Paul, not once, but twice, used his Roman citizenship to advance the Kingdom. If all Christians do is pray and nothing else, they are missing out on the opportunity God has given us to insure Christians in this country continue to have the freedom to build the Kingdom. The underground Christians in China and the persecuted church of the Middle East who are being beheaded and exterminated for their faith do not have that freedom. Persecution will come to this nation eventually, but we do not need to unlock our doors and give it the key to our cars. That is exactly what happens when we do not use our God-given wisdom to vote to protect the church.

"All we do is pray"...? I guess you don't believe in the power of prayer? Prayer is more powerful than any vote EVER was.
Prayer should be our first resource, not a last resort.

[Robert]

"All we do is pray"...? I guess you don't believe in the power of prayer? Prayer is more powerful than any vote EVER was.
Prayer should be our first resource, not a last resort.

For me, it is also about proclaiming Jesus with my vote. How can I bring Christ to the society I live in? I need to do it through prayer, care, presence, giving, and proclaiming. We are called to proclaim with our mouths. I see a vote as an extension of that. Paul spoke to the political leaders of his time. He proclaimed and was even accused, humorously, of trying to convert them. One way to advocate to the government in the US is by our vote. It is a small voice that proclaims Christ.

With saying that, I am very perplexed with how to vote for president this election int he US. I will vote because I feel the down ballot places are actually more important. State and local really have a bigger impact on my daily life. So I will vote, but I am undecided on the president. The only thing that I can figure out is I may be left with voting for the VP I want to support. I respect Pence as a person of faith. I do not like the top of that ticket. I can not bring myself to vote for such a person, but the other major party person is totally out. I have been encouraged to write in McMullin since he is not on the Michigan ballot. I am not sure that sits well with me either. I was leaning Libertarian, but Johnson/Weld has totally disappointed me this season also.

So 2 days before the election, I am still undecided, but planning on voting as a gesture of my faith.

[Robert]

Ha! Facebook memories reminded me of 4 years ago.

[gcdonner]

"All we do is pray"...? I guess you don't believe in the power of prayer? Prayer is more powerful than any vote EVER was.
Prayer should be our first resource, not a last resort.

For me, it is also about proclaiming Jesus with my vote. How can I bring Christ to the society I live in? I need to do it through prayer, care, presence, giving, and proclaiming. We are called to proclaim with our mouths. I see a vote as an extension of that. Paul spoke to the political leaders of his time. He proclaimed and was even accused, humorously, of trying to convert them. One way to advocate to the government in the US is by our vote. It is a small voice that proclaims Christ.

With saying that, I am very perplexed with how to vote for president this election int he US. I will vote because I feel the down ballot places are actually more important. State and local really have a bigger impact on my daily life. So I will vote, but I am undecided on the president. The only thing that I can figure out is I may be left with voting for the VP I want to support. I respect Pence as a person of faith. I do not like the top of that ticket. I can not bring myself to vote for such a person, but the other major party person is totally out. I have been encouraged to write in McMullin since he is not on the Michigan ballot. I am not sure that sits well with me either. I was leaning Libertarian, but Johnson/Weld has totally disappointed me this season also.

So 2 days before the election, I am still undecided, but planning on voting as a gesture of my faith.

So how does anyone know that you "proclaimed Christ" with your vote? No one but you knows who you voted for and how do you know how Christ would vote (if at all)? Paul wasn't voting, but if you are willing to do what Paul did, then you will really have the opportunity to proclaim Christ. Why not write in your own name for president? That would be as effective, don't you think?

[temporal1]

Yes we should definitely be praying for this nation first and foremost. Yes our citizenship is in the Kingdom and the Kingdom should be our main focus. However, we cannot overlook that Paul, not once, but twice, used his Roman citizenship to advance the Kingdom. If all Christians do is pray and nothing else, they are missing out on the opportunity God has given us to insure Christians in this country continue to have the freedom to build the Kingdom. The underground Christians in China and the persecuted church of the Middle East who are being beheaded and exterminated for their faith do not have that freedom. Persecution will come to this nation eventually, but we do not need to unlock our doors and give it the key to our cars. That is exactly what happens when we do not use our God-given wisdom to vote to protect the church.

"All we do is pray"...? I guess you don't believe in the power of prayer?
Prayer is more powerful than any vote EVER was.
Prayer should be our first resource, not a last resort.

george, i agree with your point.
there is a famous quote by Abraham Lincoln that brings this to mind, each time i read it:

“I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me seemed insufficient for that day.”
― Abraham Lincoln

i hope MN will include a prayer category. so much can be effectively shared in prayer (as was demonstrated over+over in MD's prayer "corner.")
Lincoln had this part right, our own human wisdom is insufficient. (complete sentence.)

Jess,
so glad to see you on MN (or anywhere!)
my reasoning is similar to yours .. i view elections (in a country that is structured on them) as a tool, similar to carpenters' tools. when the barn roof is in need of repair, most believe in the wisdom of repairing it, few leave the roof for God's hand, or leave it for their chosen kingdom in heaven.

as well, in this thread, emphasis is put on respecting government. but, is it respectful to refuse votes when that very government is structured to be dependent on votes of citizenry? i continue to be unsettled about these matters.

clearly, i understand the fail some have regarding making a false god out of government! so wrong!
but, humans make false gods out of everything! terribly so. for instance, money.
money, of itself is not "unclean." the love of money is a terrible fail.

i do mourn the terrible turn, esp since the 1960's, toward people seeking after government as a false god! it's now extreme. people don't seem to put 2+2 together, that more government = more problems, not vice versa. that's part of the seduction and hopelessness false gods are known for. they can't offer more! not possible.

i could not vote for a party that embraces murder-for-profit and generalized sin as a party platform. to me, this "single script" trend has taken on a cult aspect that is no longer a threat, but a promise.

not long ago, on MD, lesterb shared his view (with me) on this. i have been thinking about it a lot, i'm sorry not to be able to go back to revisit it. lester, if you see this and recall, i would so appreciate it if you would share it again.

i guess, for me, as long as we're going to repair barn roofs on earth, this will be (my) stumbling block.
i think of Boaz (i have no idea if he voted.) but, he demonstrated the responsibilities of both living on earth, and, worshiping God as center of his life+faith. Boaz did both, very well.

would Jesus have told Boaz to leave everything to follow Him?
i think He would! He did!
but, to me, that means leaving the field work and workers, barn, family, et al., to go.

if we're not going to leave all of it, does choosing one exception matter (to Jesus?)

my personal, inadequate view is, each must do what they are called to do.
i am not suggesting anyone vote who does not choose to.

i have not voted in most elections in my life. according to stats, the majority of people do not vote. however, most do not vote due to faith convictions. faith convictions represent a special group of non-voters. that's what i am trying to learn about with my Anabaptist friends. so far, i stumble.

[Robert]

So how does anyone know that you "proclaimed Christ" with your vote? No one but you knows who you voted for and how do you know how Christ would vote (if at all)? Paul wasn't voting, but if you are willing to do what Paul did, then you will really have the opportunity to proclaim Christ. Why not write in your own name for president? That would be as effective, don't you think?

No one knows some of those I given to and helped, yet it is still an act of faith and care.

I would not vote for myself because I could not serve in that office. I would want to be honest and authentic in my vote also. While one vote may not be loud, neither is stopping to help someone or listening to a person in turmoil. Yet, those little acts do shape our lives and speak to who we are.

Paul was not part of a democracy. It is hard to project what he would do and how he would react to the opportunity to vote. We can see voices of the Sanhedrin worked to get "votes" or support from the other members. I have never researched that enough to know exactly how it was set up during Paul's time.

I think the issue of voting is ambiguous enough that it allows the individual to find what is right for themselves. I also have no issue with churches setting guidelines for their members on voting either.

[gcdonner]

So how does anyone know that you "proclaimed Christ" with your vote? No one but you knows who you voted for and how do you know how Christ would vote (if at all)? Paul wasn't voting, but if you are willing to do what Paul did, then you will really have the opportunity to proclaim Christ. Why not write in your own name for president? That would be as effective, don't you think?

No one knows some of those I given to and helped, yet it is still an act of faith and care.

I would not vote for myself because I could not serve in that office. I would want to be honest and authentic in my vote also. While one vote may not be loud, neither is stopping to help someone or listening to a person in turmoil. Yet, those little acts do shape our lives and speak to who we are.

Paul was not part of a democracy. It is hard to project what he would do and how he would react to the opportunity to vote. We can see voices of the Sanhedrin worked to get "votes" or support from the other members. I have never researched that enough to know exactly how it was set up during Paul's time.

I think the issue of voting is ambiguous enough that it allows the individual to find what is right for themselves. I also have no issue with churches setting guidelines for their members on voting either.

Robert, you would have enjoyed the message this morning at the Baptist church. You didn't have to read between the lines much to know who the pastor was encouraging the folks to vote for. I thought that he gave an unfair option to his congregation in that he said there were only two candidates to vote for. At last count I think there are at least 4 and as many as 8 if you regard all those who have gotten sufficient notice to be registered.
How does a vote count for anything, if God has already determined the outcome? If the final statement at the morning service is true, then there is no need to quibble, since "Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of Kings" and whoever wins doesn't change that fact.
What is a Christians purpose in voting? For a more comfortable Christianity?
Remember too that God's choice of government is not democracy...

[Robert]

What is a Christians purpose in voting? For a more comfortable Christianity?

Vote to plead for a kinder more compassionate government. Government does have a place. Paul clearly states that. So if there is going to be a earthy body, would it not be best to encourage it to be as Christlike as possible? It will never be God's Kingdom, but should we not work towards a better, more humane way to treat others than execution and torture? Encourage it to be good to those it governs? A vote is just that. A statement of encouragement. "We the people" see this as the better way. By voting, we removed much of the power away from the few and disperse it to the many. While there will always be the elite that try to control the masses, a vote is a small way to say "we the people" do not want a king in this world, but a overseer who is still responsible(considerate) to the people.

[gcdonner]

What is a Christians purpose in voting? For a more comfortable Christianity?

Vote to plead for a kinder more compassionate government. Government does have a place. Paul clearly states that. So if there is going to be a earthy body, would it not be best to encourage it to be as Christlike as possible? It will never be God's Kingdom, but should we not work towards a better, more humane way to treat others than execution and torture? Encourage it to be good to those it governs? A vote is just that. A statement of encouragement. "We the people" see this as the better way. By voting, we removed much of the power away from the few and disperse it to the many. While there will always be the elite that try to control the masses, a vote is a small way to say "we the people" do not want a king in this world, but a overseer who is still responsible(considerate) to the people.

And if your vote doesn't get it???

[Jazman]

I decided a long time ago that if I vote for president, I'd write someone in. Only very recently have I decided on whom: the candidates of the American Solidarity Party Chance of winning much? Nope. Lots of organizational clout and national attention? Nope. Platform points that I can mostly agree with and do so conscientiously? Yes.