MAGA Hats

[Dan Z]

I don't think the MAGA hat was initially meant to be provocative - it was a rather hopeful campaign slogan at the beginning. It became more provocative over time.

I’m not convinced that the slogan started out as hopeful, especially considering that Trump’s campaign had an element of “white grievance” to it. It’s a nostalgic slogan and it begs the question, when was America great and who was it great for?

There definitely may be something to that Szdfan, although its intent was initially meant to capture and inspire a broad audience (you don't win presidential elections by being too narrow) Nevertheless, it has certainly become loaded with much more over time - both from within and without.

[Szdfan]

There definitely may be something to that Szdfan, although its intent was initially meant to capture and inspire a broad audience (you don't win presidential elections by being too narrow) Nevertheless, it has certainly become loaded with much more over time - both from within and without.

I guess I never thought that the Trump campaign was that broad really - it was a really close election and Trump won because of the electoral college rather than both the electoral college and the popular vote as it often happens. Since the election, certainly, Trump has done little to reach outside of his base.

I recognize that my sentiments are colored by the fact that I never felt included in Trump’s vision of America, though I recognize that many of my brothers and sisters here felt that way about Obama.

[Dan Z]

Here's my take...

First, the issues represented by these two hats are quite different - and I don't want to even hint at moral equivalency. In terms of lives, the abortion rights plank at the center of the Women's March puts it in an entirely different moral category than the Make America Great movement in my opinion, despite it's own moral failings. But, setting moral equivalency aside for the moment...

...here is how I see both hats as similar:

• 1) Both are symbols of political movements vying for power in America.
  2) Both are worn pridefully by many wearers, invoking an air of moral superiority.
  3) Both are tribal (clearly identifying which tribe they represent, and who is in and who is out).
  4) Both have become provocative and activist symbols - honored by supporters, reviled by detractors.
  5) Both symbols have media propaganda machines working for them, and against the other.
  6) Both bring about an emotional response in others, for or against.
  7) Both hats have become divisive and exclusionary - to different people for different reasons.
  
  And in a faith sense -
  8) Neither hat represents a vision that is compatible with the way of Jesus.
  9) Both have no place in the wardrobe or sympathies of a follower of Christ.

I dislike both hats for these reasons.

[Neto]

Dan, I'm going to venture into the 'political' here and say yes, there is an ideological 'oppositeness' associated with the two 'causes', MAGA & the "kitty-cat movement" (I don't want to use the term they apparently use). But not exact 'oppositeness'. The MAGA 'battle cry' assumes that there was a better America in the past, and they want to bring it back. Leave off the 'Again', and talk about the 'America for the Americans' sort of idea, and I think that if it REALLY is intended to mean a 'better America for all Americans', then it also means a solution to the problems that plague the native peoples of the USA, and other minorities as well. The fact that there are some African Americans who are also taking up this battle cry indicates that some of them believe that it is for them as well - that 'making America great' will mean a better life for them and their children & grandchildren after them. If the movement succeeds in its goals as expressed by the President, will it do this? The opposition says that it means a return to open & unchallenged racism. Is there anything in his rhetoric that supports this charge? (I don't think so, but I don't listen to a lot of his speeches, so I don't really know.) But back to native Americans - Why is this issue so ignored?
But the kitty-cats are in an entirely different category. Racism in any form or in any person is evil. But limiting the behavior supported by the pinkcap people is a step in the direction of morality. (Well, legislating morality, which I do not this is effective, anyway. As I said in a post that was moved out of the border wall thread, I've been disturbed by the extent to which the March-for-Life ends up being more anti-abortion than it is pro-life, in terms of the rhetoric.)

Interesting analysis Neto.

In a nutshell, I hear you saying that the MAGA hat has behind it sentiments that perhaps are inclusive - that if America becomes great again, it might become great for all people. But this is still an open question, and I hear you wondering out-loud if this really does include all people (e.g. Native Americans). You also recognize that some people feel the MAGA message represents a return to a more racist ideology, where the greatness of america is not shared with all - but from what you know, you don't think there is a real strong case to be made for this. Time will tell if the MAGA ideals are for all.

The kitty-cat hats, on the other hand, are an opposite idea in a sense. I think you said that while the movement represents nods toward being for all people and against racism, it has an immorality at its center (I'm assuming abortion) that is anything but respectful of human rights. Did I get that right?

Pretty much, but I apparently wasn't totally clear in my second paragraph. My statement that "Racism in any form or in any person is evil." was meant as a statement against those who use the MAGA slogan as an expression of that evil. (That is, I was not relating the idea of inclusiveness to the kitty-cat caps at all, only to the question of to what extent MAGA is intended for everyone.) Then the rest is an accurate expression of what I mean - that this form of feminism at least, has an immorality at its very core. Its core belief is evil.
I'm reminded now of a book my anthropology prof had written as his doctoral thesis, in which he explored the world view of the Indonesian tribal group with which he had spent some 20 to 25 years, showing that corn was the central value of that society. The objective of missions, then, is to start a process in which Christ becomes the core of the world view, the central value with which everything else must find harmony. Otherwise, the changes in the society will not be permanent, or they will be marginal at best. The kitty-cats put the 'right' to kill their own unborn children at the very center of their ideology, their world view. That focus cannot be changed by secular law. It will be like India attempting to stop the practice of burning the wives of deceased men on the funeral pyre. (I tend to suspect that the central value of MAGA is 'America First', and to some extent a return to morality may vie for that position. I would be interested in hearing your - and others' - analysis of that.)

[temporal1]

A different kind of headcovering thread. lol

Neto:
Pretty much, but I apparently wasn't totally clear in my second paragraph.
My statement that "Racism in any form or in any person is evil." was meant as a statement against those who use the MAGA slogan as an expression of that evil.

(That is, I was not relating the idea of inclusiveness to the kitty-cat caps at all, only to the question of to what extent MAGA is intended for everyone.)

Then the rest is an accurate expression of what I mean - that this form of feminism at least, has an immorality at its very core. Its core belief is evil.

I'm reminded now of a book my anthropology prof had written as his doctoral thesis, in which he explored the world view of the Indonesian tribal group with which he had spent some 20 to 25 years, showing that corn was the central value of that society.

The objective of missions, then, is to start a process in which Christ becomes the core of the world view, the central value with which everything else must find harmony.

Otherwise, the changes in the society will not be permanent, or they will be marginal at best.

The kitty-cats put the 'right' to kill their own unborn children at the very center of their ideology, their world view.

That focus cannot be changed by secular law.
It will be like India attempting to stop the practice of burning the wives of deceased men on the funeral pyre.

(I tend to suspect that the central value of MAGA is 'America First', and to some extent a return to morality may vie for that position.)

I would be interested in hearing your - and others' - analysis of that.)

coincidentally, i just saw a piece stating “MAGA” was a slogan used by 2 former presidents, Bill Clinton, and, i think, Ronald Reagan. (i failed to find it, even tho it appeared just this last week.)

To me, it’s credible others used MAGA.
As you’re saying, the words are not contentious, unless you “want” them to be.
In this case, the “want” to hate Trump is great. Even blinding.

In my life, maybe starting as a young child with “I Like Ike” buttons, these are political campaign messages. My family just avoided them. i continue that, and my family continues.

On that score, ditto for all “rallying” symbols, like kitty hats or gaudy rainbows. ugh.
i just don’t like any of that stuff. never have.

Regarding the kitty hats. Wow.
Frankly, they send a DELIBERATE message of intentional in-your-face degrading insult, so strong, so obvious, my eyes “auto-reject” them without giving them “the time of day.”
Early in this thread, the question about their purpose made me “draw a blank.” i had no idea what purpose they might have. To insult? Yes.

When i was in my early 20’s, “a big shocker” in the culture was found in the movie, “Love Story,” in which Ali McGraw so precociously normalized “the F word” in everyday language, as-if making it a poignant sign of higher intellect and youthful beauty.



It was shocking. The word was taboo.
i’m old enough today, i can spot+reject this sort of (“dog whistle?”) without getting sucked into wondering about its worth. i don’t over rate what testy college students are pushing for the sake of testing their new power wings.

more interesting is where they land AFTER their awkward test trials.
given time, they tend to land in different places. part of gaining real time experience, paying bills, raising families, and the natural maturing process.

most cultures value their elders. this is not without reason.

the prolife folks have a LOT of young people. lots of energy.
i’m glad they are thoughtful about it. hearts+minds are #1, regardless of human law.

As you say, Neto, the underlying foundation is the key to longevity. Jesus Christ.

[temporal1]

i’m hoping not to see a pink hat as Robert’s next avatar.

[Robert]

Honest question: Are these hat styles below two sides of the same coin? Why or why not?

They are to me.

[Robert]

I don't think the MAGA hat was initially meant to be provocative - it was a rather hopeful campaign slogan at the beginning. It became more provocative over time.

I’m not convinced that the slogan started out as hopeful, especially considering that Trump’s campaign had an element of “white grievance” to it. It’s a nostalgic slogan and it begs the question, when was America great and who was it great for?

Are you aware that Reagan and Clinton both used the phrase?

[Robert]

I guess I never thought that the Trump campaign was that broad really - it was a really close election and Trump won because of the electoral college rather than both the electoral college and the popular vote as it often happens. Since the election, certainly, Trump has done little to reach outside of his base.

Criminal Justice reform and Inner City focus that Ben Carson has been spearheading. Reducing the amount of red tape small businesses have to deal with helps minorities much more.

These have been major factors, but often overshadowed by Trump's own rhetoric and the left's attempt to hide ANYTHING done that helps minorities.

[Robert]

i’m hoping not to see a pink hat as Robert’s next avatar.

The first was for my new campaign against low priced cheese slicers from China. I promise to increase tariffs in these cheese slicers that China is using to flood the market and just about eliminate graters. Grated cheese is so much better and when we used to use grated cheese, life was so much better. I want to return to a time of grateness.

The second was Obama's Hope and Change logo hat.

So how did the two different images affect you? Be honest.