MAGA Hats

[Dan Z]

I always regret doing this as a non-voter - and will undoubtedly take flack at some point for complaining about an outcome I have taken no part in.

Sigh...but since you asked sincerely, here's the view from the cheap seats:

For my own part, let me first make sure to acknowledge that I don't think the Trump Presidency is all bad for the country. I do pray for him, his family, and his decision-making - and I can think of some rather healthy outcomes of his presidency off the top of my head - for example :

• - he has been consistently pro-life in relationship to the abortion issue,
  - he has appointed numerous more conservative justices and judges, which for a generation will help ensure things like religious liberty and traditional and constitutional values are kept in tact,
  - he has taken a number of steps to uphold and enforce the rule of law, especially within our immigration system,
  - he has advanced a pro-business climate that I believe has contributed to economic growth and low unemployment, providing jobs for those in need.

Now, to answer your question about concerns, and without obsessing over it too much, I believe his personality issues are the main threat, and include his blatant insults, innuendo, bullying, and juvenile-like banter (initially against fellow Republicans) that has lowered the level of political discourse & civility (if that were possible) . He has done little to exhibit the empathy needed to bring folks together. Also, his very fluid relationship with truth (to an extraordinary degree frankly) has degraded domestic and global confidence in the veracity of the office of the presidency. Oh, and his dubious business dealings and interpersonal relationships over the years (including numerous adulterous marriage-ending relationships over the years) have made him a poor role-model, and continue to undercut the gravitas of the office, and his ability to speak or represent the presidency or the country with a voice of moral authority.

I generally have less concerns with him in a policy sense. However, some of his actions as President are alarming, destabilizing, and I may represent potential threats to democracy. For example, he has regularly undercut the rule of law by calling for the jailing of political opponents and pardoning of political allies, by intimidating, firing and/or forcing out those who have been charged with upholding justice - mainly because his actions were under investigation. He also has exhibited a concerning authoritarian bent (and affinity with authoritarianism elsewhere), and a general disregard for democratic norms (e.g the emergency declaration to fund the wall) that will undoubtedly come back to haunt Republicans when the shoe is on the other foot (I recognize Obama's tendency to rule by executive order already started the slide toward the "imperial presidency"). He seems overly impetuous and intuitive, and I am concerned by the general global instability his erratic foreign policy and world economic policies seemed to have brought about. Finally, I am very concerned with the long-term effect of the tremendous debt that his unfunded tax cuts (compounded by exorbitant military spending) have brought about, and the widening gap between societal haves and have nots (again, a trend that started under Obama & Bush).

Ultimately, my main issue all along with President Trump is not that he's a Republican (I know folks like to understand it that way), but that he is just a very poor presidential choice - who temperamentally, integrity-wise, morally, and to some degree ideologically is poorly suited for the role of Chief Executive and leader of the world’s most powerful democracy. This is a perspective many thoughtful conservatives I have read seem to share. I think the electorate (of which I'm not one) can do much better than this. I honestly hope they get better choices in the future - and that they choose more wisely.

I suspect that in some ways we are not that far apart from each here Robert - and I'd be happy for your perspective and push-back.

[Bootstrap]

Dr. Saad's interview with Glen Beck was interesting. Thanks for positing it Robert.

Saad's "Collective Munchausen" theory makes good sense to me - many on the left seem to have become so engrossed in the identity of victim-hood and denied rights that they seem to need injury to function and form identity (e.g. me too, black lives matter, gay rights, immigrant rights, animal rights, wage rights, etc.). Thus, instead of a platform of hope, optimism, problem-solving, and forward thinking they often negatively default to a platform of offence, injustice, litigating wrongs, and pushing for punishment and restitution. Most folks on the right and in the center recoil from this.

But many on the right are also engrossed in victimhood, outrage, and persecution complexes, which seem to fuel a lot of the tribalism on both wings. It drives the ratings for many talking heads.

It's no more attractive on the political right.

[Dan Z]

Dr. Saad's interview with Glen Beck was interesting. Thanks for positing it Robert.

Saad's "Collective Munchausen" theory makes good sense to me - many on the left seem to have become so engrossed in the identity of victim-hood and denied rights that they seem to need injury to function and form identity (e.g. me too, black lives matter, gay rights, immigrant rights, animal rights, wage rights, etc.). Thus, instead of a platform of hope, optimism, problem-solving, and forward thinking they often negatively default to a platform of offence, injustice, litigating wrongs, and pushing for punishment and restitution. Most folks on the right and in the center recoil from this.

But many on the right are also engrossed in victimhood, outrage, and persecution complexes, which seem to fuel a lot of the tribalism on both wings. It drives the ratings for many talking heads.

It's no more attractive on the political right.

Perhaps you are right at some level Boot, but the difference is that I honestly don't believe the right has nearly the same level of ideological investment as the left does in the victim-hood narrative and the identity politics that go with it. Not that their aren't victims out there - wrongs have surely been done, and justice is needed - but to wallow in injustice, or to build an identity upon it, seems unhealthy to me.

[Robert]

I suspect that in some ways we are not that far apart from each here Robert - and I'd be happy for your perspective and push-back.

We are pretty close. The main difference I think we have is I do not take President Trump literally. 75% of his bluster is just that. When he claims that he has the biggest inauguration, best trade deal, or the best whatever, I know he is exaggerating. I ignore much of what he says and watch what he does. I did the same with Obama. I was not fooled by his flowery speech and smooth talk. I watched his actions and policies.

I am also concerned about abuses of power, but am just as concerned with unjust investigations. The 4th amendment restricts the government from investigating "looking for a crime." A crime has to be identified, then an investigation can commence. I feel much of what is going on is political investigations, not just or legal ones. These are abuses of power also.

My concern is that it is happening from both sides. Because of the documented leaning of mainstream media, their oversight task is challenged too. They are only watching one side, and distorting a lot of that.

I, too, do not like the emergency act for the wall, but feel it is much more justified then many of the emergency acts that have been used in the past. I think it has been a crisis for over 20 years. With waves of caravans coming up, it is more justified then some of the previous acts like DACA.

The Congress gave away this power. President Trump is not taking it. If they do not want him to have it, then they should change the law, which I think is wise to do, not leave it for issues later. Yet, Congress will not do their job, but will spend the next two years making political turmoil. Much of it will cover over the issues you highlighted from the President. This will leave us in the cloudy mess we are in now. Both sides claiming the other is doing exactly what they are doing themselves.

I did not vote for President Trump, but may the next election, solely on policy. Another reason will be if they misused the FBI and all this investigation was a farce as it is starting to show that it was. I will not reward the other side for playing games with justice, or rather injustice. I may still go 3rd party. I will wait to see. I mostly vote for local issues and offices. I will not leave the Presidential spot blank for fear it will be filled in by someone else.

[Dan Z]

You are a very reasoned person Robert - I appreciate that about you.

Yes, - this all seems rather pragmatic to me, particularly if you have little alternate choice in the matter at this point (with the alternative being democratic control of the presidency). Like the old Crosby, Stills and Nash song said - "If you can be with the one you love, love the one your with."

We are pretty close. The main difference I think we have is I do not take President Trump literally. 75% of his bluster is just that. When he claims that he has the biggest inauguration, best trade deal, or the best whatever, I know he is exaggerating. I ignore much of what he says and watch what he does. I did the same with Obama. I was not fooled by his flowery speech and smooth talk. I watched his actions and policies.

I can see how this would relieve a lot of the potential tension. If more people would just filter out what comes out of his mouth and tweets and focus mostly on substance, there is a lot less for us all to get wound up about. Unfortunately, often words have meaning (even Trump words), and in my experience words and actions are linked (i.e. words are a window into the soul) - in other words, a person lacking verbal integrity often lacks integrity in other areas as well - and that certainly seem to be the case with this president, whether it be words or tweets or business dealings or marriage faithfulness or underhanded politics.

I am also concerned about abuses of power, but am just as concerned with unjust investigations. The 4th amendment restricts the government from investigating "looking for a crime." A crime has to be identified, then an investigation can commence. I feel much of what is going on is political investigations, not just or legal ones. These are abuses of power also.

Agreed. Like you do with Trumps words, I basically ignore these congressional committees, which seem more focused on scoring political points than finding truth. Wish it wasn't so. The exception in my mind is the Muller commission, which is a justice department function that so far seems thoughtful, circumspect, and relatively insulated from political brinkmanship.

My concern is that it is happening from both sides. Because of the documented leaning of mainstream media, their oversight task is challenged too. They are only watching one side, and distorting a lot of that.

Probably depends on the source - some are more fair than others - but I'll concur that there is a general left-ward lean to the media that needs to be considered. I do think that good reporting from good sources is fairly easy to spot however if one learns what to look for.

I did not vote for President Trump, but may the next election, solely on policy. Another reason will be if they misused the FBI and all this investigation was a farce as it is starting to show that it was. I will not reward the other side for playing games with justice, or rather injustice. I may still go 3rd party. I will wait to see. I mostly vote for local issues and offices. I will not leave the Presidential spot blank for fear it will be filled in by someone else.

I understand. Again, you are a reasonable and pragmatic person - in light of the alternatives (democratic control), a Republican like you has little choice in the matter but to support Trump and hope the wheels don't fall off in the meantime. The dye was cast when the country chose him in the first place - the voters of this country sleep in the bed they have made for themselves.

[Josh]

I find it hard to understand how the “wheels falling off” isn’t something that happened a long time ago. Exactly what is everyone worried about?

[Robert]

a Republican like you

I am libertarian, not Republican, if one has to declare a political sphere.

Probably depends on the source

Sure, but when media coverage is 94% negative by not right leaning pollsters, it clearly shows a strong negative distortion of the media. While there is plenty to be negative about the president's comments, there is also very much to be positive about for the economy, and populace. Raising wages, low unemployment, deregulation, Justice reform. The media intentionally hides anything positive and only runs with the negative. It was flipped for President Obama. They hid the negative, but surely flaunted anything positive. The same media was usually 75%+ positive about Obama by the same pollsters that found them negative towards President Trump. This is clear bias. These polls are about hard news reporting, not opinion shows. Fake News is a fair term.

Even Google was shown to distort search results and Twitter is banning people who have a "conservative" view about LGBT issues.

The exception in my mind is the Muller commission, which is a justice department function that so far seems thoughtful, circumspect, and relatively insulated from political brinkmanship.

I agree his investigation has been less political, but I honestly think it was started for political reasons, not legal ones. It was started using false information that was never investigated, but claimed as true to start the investigation. This is quite troubling to me.

The dye was cast when the country chose him in the first place - the voters of this country sleep in the bed they have made for themselves.

I felt the same after one term with President Obama and when he was reelected. I actually think the US government is past the point of return. The debt and belief one can legislate morality, morality based on ideology not faith, is so set in that I see no hope in turning around. The culture and the debt both are so damaging, that it can not be reclaimed. Neither side will address the debt, which is a very serious issue. If not dealt with over the next 5-10 years in a large way, we will see run away inflation and a collapse of governmental programs. MAGA hats will seem silly once people finally see the emperor has no clothes.

[appleman2006]

I felt the same after one term with President Obama and when he was reelected. I actually think the US government is past the point of return. The debt and belief one can legislate morality, morality based on ideology not faith, is so set in that I see no hope in turning around. The culture and the debt both are so damaging, that it can not be reclaimed. Neither side will address the debt, which is a very serious issue. If not dealt with over the next 5-10 years in a large way, we will see run away inflation and a collapse of governmental programs. MAGA hats will seem silly once people finally see the emperor has no clothes.

I so agree with this statement. Applies to Canadian politics as well. I think history will show that the election of Trudeau and the resulting debt was the tipping point into disaster.

[Robert]

I honestly think BB reads MN!!

[temporal1]

I find it hard to understand how the “wheels falling off” isn’t something that happened a long time ago. Exactly what is everyone worried about?

i was just thinking of adding a post to RZehr’s “Good things about the Trump presidency” thread about all the horrible things that were “CERTAIN” to happen, if DJT were elected, but, they have not happened. so, that’s good, right?

some things have not happened many hoped for - like, an exodus of hollywood to Canada.
but. o.well. actors aren’t meant to be believed, anyway. make-believe, and all.

.. fwiw, i suspect “the truth is,” political libs are pretty-sure, if they can’t make a case for how “evil” their opponents are, the evil within their party will “lose bigly” for a long while to come.
i can see how this is terrifying to lib politicians. so, daily screaming it is.

they COULD have chosen a higher path, to offer a better platform, but, that would have been more difficult. it would have required introspection and planning.

ordinary people (everywhere) are not wanting expensive questionable lib experiments to “change the world.” (guaranteed expensive, not guaranteed to work.) that’s “playing-at-college” stuff, not real-life stuff.

ordinary people want jobs and stability, the freedom to work and hope, distance from politics ..
quiet+safety on the streets.