Not-so-United Methodists

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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For those conservatives, last week’s postponement was too much.

“We’re encouraging those who can find a pathway that is appropriate for them to go ahead and exit the denomination,” said the Rev. Keith Boyette, who leads the Transitional Leadership Council that is guiding the creation of the Global Methodist Church, the new conservative denomination.
Seems like a scam by the liberals to get access to all of the denomination's assets; they pulled the exact same stunts in TEC, PC(USA), and MC USA. The conservatives (despite being a majority) are invited to leave, and the liberals hold on to lots of property, university campuses, campgrounds, etc.

In the case of TEC and PC(USA) these assets have eventually ended up sold to keep the dying denomination going. Conservatives should be willing to stand up and fight.
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temporal1
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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”More than 100 Florida churches file lawsuit to leave United Methodist Church”
The lawsuit comes amid a slow-moving schism in the United Methodist Church largely over the ordination and marriage of its LGBTQ members.
https://religionnews.com/2022/07/18/mor ... st-church/
.. Meanwhile, the lawsuit alleges the Council of Bishops and its past president — Bishop Ken Carter, who heads both the Florida and Western North Carolina conferences — are not abiding by the same Book of Discipline. Among other things, it said they did nothing as the California-Nevada Annual Conference elected the denomination’s first openly LGBTQ bishop, the Illinois Great Rivers Conference certified its first drag queen as a candidate for ministry and the Western Jurisdiction declared itself a “safe harbor” for LGBTQ clergy.
In a written statement in response to the lawsuit, Carter said the Florida Annual Conference was “deeply grieved by this, as we seek to be a church united in love and in mission.”

The Florida Annual Conference is committed to the “gracious exit” provided in the Book of Discipline and has tried to engage churches in that process, according to its bishop’s statement.

Leaving abruptly without making the payments required by the disaffiliation plan approved in 2019 could damage benefits and pensions for retired pastors, he wrote. Apportionments support camps, campus ministries, natural disaster responses, missions abroad and the United Methodist Children’s Home.

“We ask that, despite their haste, these groups seeking to break away live up to the responsibilities established by the General Conference in 2019, and that they not cause pain, damage or disparage other United Methodist churches, other members in their churches or other pastors, or the Conference,” Carter wrote.

Florida has emerged as an early indicator of what schism may look like as it begins to unfold across the United Methodist Church.
Days after the Global Methodist Church launched in May, the Wesleyan Covenant Association’s Florida chapter announced 107 churches were disaffiliating from the United Methodist Church and planning to join the new denomination. The WCA confirmed most of those churches are participating in the new lawsuit.

At the Florida Annual Conference meeting this summer, delegates reportedly rejected a slate of 16 people on track to become ordained elders or deacons because two of them were openly gay.
They also approved 14 disaffiliations.

Boyette, head of the Global Methodist Church, said he expects those numbers to increase this fall when a number of United Methodist annual conferences are scheduled to hold special sessions regarding disaffiliations.
“Most of those churches are making their way to the Global Methodist Church,” he said.
That includes “virtually all” of the churches named in the lawsuit against the Florida Annual Conference, according to Boyette, who said he is not involved in the lawsuit.

The Global Methodist Church launched this year after a third postponement of the United Methodist Church’s 2020 General Conference, which was set to consider a proposal to split the denomination, allowing churches to disaffiliate with their properties to form new conservative expressions of Methodism. It now has several hundred clergy and nearly 100 churches worldwide, Boyette said.

In recent weeks, moderate and progressive leaders who helped negotiate the proposal, called the Protocol of Reconciliation & Grace Through Separation, have rescinded their support. Bishops who were part of the negotiating team, including Carter, released a statement affirming the work that had been done on the proposal and trusting it to delegates who may still consider it at the next General Conference, now scheduled for 2024.

Meanwhile, Boyette said, some annual conferences are requiring lengthy discernment periods and additional financial obligations that weren’t outlined in the 2019 disaffiliation plan from churches wishing to leave.
“All of that has taken a situation that could have been and was directed in an amicable way toward resolution to make it a very contentious, conflicted situation,” he said.

“So, in my mind, it’s not surprising that churches feel like they have no recourse but to resort to litigation at this point,
and that’s what essentially I believe that leadership in the United Methodist Church has invited by taking the steps that they’ve taken,” Boyette added.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Josh
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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After refusing to uphold the book of church discipline regarding numerous openly homosexual bishops and ministers - some of whom were not even gay-married, but just openly living promiscuous lives - the bishops (dominated by the Western Conference) have suddenly been very eager to enforce discipline against any bishops or preachers who dare to want to join the Global Methodist Connection.

What is at stake here is that the liberals want to steal the church buildings and properties away from the congregations. I happen to know someone going through this and it is very difficult for then. They basically have to pay a large fee to the homosexual-dominated UMC in order to keep their building.
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temporal1
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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Josh wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:33 am After refusing to uphold the book of church discipline regarding numerous openly homosexual bishops and ministers - some of whom were not even gay-married, but just openly living promiscuous lives - the bishops (dominated by the Western Conference) have suddenly been very eager to enforce discipline against any bishops or preachers who dare to want to join the Global Methodist Connection.

What is at stake here is that the liberals want to steal the church buildings and properties away from the congregations.

I happen to know someone going through this and it is very difficult for then.
They basically have to pay a large fee to the homosexual-dominated UMC in order to keep their building.
imho, they’ve been to law school, human law is where their “treasures” are.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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ohio jones
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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temporal1 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:20 pm
Josh wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:33 am After refusing to uphold the book of church discipline regarding numerous openly homosexual bishops and ministers - some of whom were not even gay-married, but just openly living promiscuous lives - the bishops (dominated by the Western Conference) have suddenly been very eager to enforce discipline against any bishops or preachers who dare to want to join the Global Methodist Connection.

What is at stake here is that the liberals want to steal the church buildings and properties away from the congregations.

I happen to know someone going through this and it is very difficult for then.
They basically have to pay a large fee to the homosexual-dominated UMC in order to keep their building.
imho, they’ve been to law school, human law is where their “treasures” are.
They obviously don't teach 1 Cor. 6 in law school. Apparently not in Methodist seminaries, either.
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Ken
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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Josh wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:33 am After refusing to uphold the book of church discipline regarding numerous openly homosexual bishops and ministers - some of whom were not even gay-married, but just openly living promiscuous lives - the bishops (dominated by the Western Conference) have suddenly been very eager to enforce discipline against any bishops or preachers who dare to want to join the Global Methodist Connection.

What is at stake here is that the liberals want to steal the church buildings and properties away from the congregations. I happen to know someone going through this and it is very difficult for then. They basically have to pay a large fee to the homosexual-dominated UMC in order to keep their building.
How is this any different from say the Catholic Church? Could a Catholic congregation vote to leave the Catholic Church over some doctrinal issue and then take their building with them? I suspect not.
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Josh
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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Ken wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:27 pm How is this any different from say the Catholic Church? Could a Catholic congregation vote to leave the Catholic Church over some doctrinal issue and then take their building with them? I suspect not.
This isn't a "doctrinal issue". The Methodist discipline has, since its beginning, not allowed homosexual bishops and ministers. Yet the liberals have brazenly and openly done this.

So when some of the conservatives want to have a denomination that upholds Methodist doctrine, with buildings they raised funds for and paid for, they should get to keep them.

And yes, if the Catholic church was doing the same thing, then the congregants and members should get to take their building with them.

In my denomination if an entire congregation decides to leave our church then they can keep the building. So far that has happened exactly once in the history of our denomination.
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temporal1
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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Josh wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:37 pm This isn't a "doctrinal issue".
The Methodist discipline has, since its beginning, not allowed homosexual bishops and ministers.

Yet the liberals have brazenly and openly done this.

So when some of the conservatives want to have a denomination that upholds Methodist doctrine, with buildings they raised funds for and paid for, they should get to keep them.

And yes, if the Catholic church was doing the same thing, then the congregants and members should get to take their building with them.

In my denomination if an entire congregation decides to leave our church then they can keep the building. So far that has happened exactly once in the history of our denomination.
Well, the Catholic Church was tested by some of her own, who went on to become Protestants and Anabaptists. i’m not sure many care to emulate the Catholic Church’s historic response.

They took nothing but their Bibles, as far as i know. They were persecuted for that.

Maybe this case is more similar than not?
After all, it was distortion and corruption in the central Church that resulted in protests and calls to return to Truth.
This is the 21st Century version. Hopefully, no burning at the stake. But it’s not entirely out of the question.
Esp if courts favor the church’s conservatives. :shock:
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Ken
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:37 pm
Ken wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:27 pm How is this any different from say the Catholic Church? Could a Catholic congregation vote to leave the Catholic Church over some doctrinal issue and then take their building with them? I suspect not.
This isn't a "doctrinal issue". The Methodist discipline has, since its beginning, not allowed homosexual bishops and ministers. Yet the liberals have brazenly and openly done this.

So when some of the conservatives want to have a denomination that upholds Methodist doctrine, with buildings they raised funds for and paid for, they should get to keep them.

And yes, if the Catholic church was doing the same thing, then the congregants and members should get to take their building with them.

In my denomination if an entire congregation decides to leave our church then they can keep the building. So far that has happened exactly once in the history of our denomination.
The local United Methodist Church near me was founded in 1850 and the current building was constructed in 1912. I doubt any current congregants raised funds and paid for the building.
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Josh
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Re: Not-so-United Methodists

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The families are multigenerational of the Methodist church I am aware of. Their family legacy is being stolen from them.

All so that homosexual bishops can prance about living openly promiscuous lifestyles.
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