More than 6,000 United Methodist congregations — a fifth of the U.S. total — have now received permission to leave the denomination amid a schism over theology and the role of LGBTQ people in the nation's second-largest Protestant denomination.
Those figures emerge following the close of regular meetings in June for the denomination's regional bodies, known as annual conferences. The departures began with a trickle in 2019 — when the church created a four-year window of opportunity for U.S. congregations to depart over LGBTQ-related issues — and cascaded to its highest level this year.
Church law forbids the marriage or ordination of “self-avowed, practicing homosexuals,” but many conservatives have chosen to leave amid a growing defiance of those bans in many U.S. churches and conferences.
Many of the departing congregations are joining the Global Methodist Church, a denomination created last year by conservatives breaking from the UMC, while others are going independent or joining different denominations. .. ..
4/5ths or 80% of United Methodist Churches choose to be welcoming of gay members (or accepting of churches that are) and
1/5th or 20% of United Methodist Churches choose not to be
It is a split, but not a very even one.
The split is definitely lopsided but not exactly because all the UMC churches are welcoming/affirming (though a lot are). The cost to leave the UMC is immense - in order to do so an individual congregation has to pay both its annual fees and a percentage of the value of its property to the annual conference. Many small congregations are just barely holding on financially as it is and these exits fees might effectively bankrupt them. Add to that the fact that many congregations are populated by septuagenarians and octogenarians, people not generally known for taking radical moves like splitting a church and I think that’s why it looks so lopsided.
Nevertheless, in central Pennsylvania some 137 congregations voted to disaffiliate last month including some of the largest and wealthiest ones in the area. My uncle was a UMC minister whose Altoona-area congregation voted to leave. It’s definitely come with the aforementioned cost but now he finds himself without insurance and pension which he had through the UMC. Meanwhile, my Grandmother’s Williamsport congregation though conservative-leaning couldn’t find the will to even discuss leaving. It seems they’d rather just pretend the split wasn’t happening.
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Affiliation: Lancaster Mennonite Conference & Honduran Mennonite Evangelical Church
The split is definitely lopsided but not exactly because all the UMC churches are welcoming/affirming (though a lot are). The cost to leave the UMC is immense - in order to do so an individual congregation has to pay both its annual fees and a percentage of the value of its property to the annual conference. Many small congregations are just barely holding on financially as it is and these exits fees might effectively bankrupt them. Add to that the fact that many congregations are populated by septuagenarians and octogenarians, people not generally known for taking radical moves like splitting a church and I think that’s why it looks so lopsided.
Nevertheless, in central Pennsylvania some 137 congregations voted to disaffiliate last month including some of the largest and wealthiest ones in the area. My uncle was a UMC minister whose Altoona-area congregation voted to leave. It’s definitely come with the aforementioned cost but now he finds himself without insurance and pension which he had through the UMC. Meanwhile, my Grandmother’s Williamsport congregation though conservative-leaning couldn’t find the will to even discuss leaving. It seems they’d rather just pretend the split wasn’t happening.
All my family is UMC and I hear about the split especially recently. Two sisters are all UMC all the way but one sister's church wants to leave and the bishop in her conference is making it almost impossible - adding on more cost than other conferences are. Apparently the bishop has quite a bit of power to do this and each conference can have a good bit of say in the split. Also there are many pastors just retiring and others leaving and not joining the new Global church. It's not an easy thing to leave when you are tied to the building and having grown up UM I sadly see how many are tied to the building. To just leave and begin somewhere else- even renting etc while costly might not cost as much and like said above- pastors lose their health insurance and pension etc. The UMC is doing all it can to make I difficult which I find interesting since they are poles apart in beliefs.
The one sister was almost gloating that so few left in her conference- wonder why it's so few.
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:06 am
The split is definitely lopsided but not exactly because all the UMC churches are welcoming/affirming (though a lot are).
The cost to leave the UMC is immense - in order to do so an individual congregation has to pay both its annual fees and a percentage of the value of its property to the annual conference.
Many small congregations are just barely holding on financially as it is and these exits fees might effectively bankrupt them.
Add to that the fact that many congregations are populated by septuagenarians and octogenarians, people not generally known for taking radical moves like splitting a church and I think that’s why it looks so lopsided.
Nevertheless, in central Pennsylvania some 137 congregations voted to disaffiliate last month including some of the largest and wealthiest ones in the area.
My uncle was a UMC minister whose Altoona-area congregation voted to leave.
It’s definitely come with the aforementioned cost but now he finds himself without insurance and pension which he had through the UMC. Meanwhile, my Grandmother’s Williamsport congregation though conservative-leaning couldn’t find the will to even discuss leaving. It seems they’d rather just pretend the split wasn’t happening.
Thanks for your observations+insights.
Do you see similarities/differences with the MCUSA divide? Baptists? Other?
As is often the case with flat statistics, they can be so limited, then misused. This is both widely recognized, and widely ignored.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:40 amThanks for your observations+insights.
Do you see similarities/differences with the MCUSA divide? Baptists? Other?
In both the MC USA and the Southern Baptist Convention, individual congregations own their church buildings, so bishops or other heirarchical leaders can't effectively steal a congregation's church building from them. They also cannot threaten ministers near retirement with destroying their pension.
Believe me, if the current crowd running MC USA could find a way to steal all of the property of the churches that left over issues like gay marriage, they would have. The Episcopal Church and the PC(USA) did exactly that, just like the UMC heirarchy is doing now.
A UMC bishop makes around $180,000/year salary plus benefits. They need to seize and sell a lot of church properties to make sure they can keep paying themselves their big salaries.
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:40 amThanks for your observations+insights.
Do you see similarities/differences with the MCUSA divide? Baptists? Other?
In both the MC USA and the Southern Baptist Convention, individual congregations own their church buildings, so bishops or other heirarchical leaders can't effectively steal a congregation's church building from them. They also cannot threaten ministers near retirement with destroying their pension.
Believe me, if the current crowd running MC USA could find a way to steal all of the property of the churches that left over issues like gay marriage, they would have. The Episcopal Church and the PC(USA) did exactly that, just like the UMC heirarchy is doing now.
A UMC bishop makes around $180,000/year salary plus benefits. They need to seize and sell a lot of church properties to make sure they can keep paying themselves their big salaries.
I doubt church properties generate a single dime of income. They are more likely to be money-pits. Especially older ones. So I doubt that income from church properties is paying any salaries. That income is coming from other sources.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:26 am
I doubt church properties generate a single dime of income. They are more likely to be money-pits. Especially older ones. So I doubt that income from church properties is paying any salaries. That income is coming from other sources.
They generate a lot of money when the bishop orders a congregation closed, puts up the property for sale, and then the money goes to the regional conference's coffers.
There was a crooked Apostolic (Nazarean) elder from Australia who did just that; he managed to stack a quorum at their church in Strongsville, Ohio, and forced a sale. He had his eye on two properties in L.A. that are easily worth millions and have 25 or so members attending each of them.
Highlight:
JLP / Christian Theologian Fired for Tweeting Against Gay Marriage ft. Aaron Edwards (Highlight) / 11 min
Full interview:
JLP / "Canceled" Christian Theologian Dr. Aaron Edwards Joins Jesse! (Ep. 336) / 1 hr 10 min
Description:
On this week's episode of TheFallenState TV, host Jesse Lee Peterson is joined by Dr. Aaron Edwards—He is a Christian academic theologian, writer, preacher, and host of the Pod Of the Gaps Podcast.
In this candid and impactful conversation, Jesse and Aaron delve into the challenges and personal experiences surrounding Aaron's firing from his position at a Bible college due to a tweet he posted on the internet.
Their discussion explores the complexities of free speech, cancel culture, and the intersection of faith and modern society.
Don't miss this episode, which not only shines a light on an important societal issue but also champions the power of open dialogue and understanding. Tune in for a compelling discussion that encourages viewers to reflect on the delicate balance between freedom of expression and the consequences it can entail.
Tune in on Friday at 12 Noon Pacific Time / 3:00 PM Eastern Time to catch our Premiere!
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
