Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

[Robert]

Yet if that were the case, the freedoms and comforts they take for granted now would all be gone or seriously different in a way they wouldn't like either! I wish more pastors, teachers, preachers would address this attitude publicly and then maybe it wouldn't be so pervasive. Unfortunately I hear the same attitude over the pulpit at times...

I have a different perspective.

Government does not give us any freedoms. Those are all from God. Even in China I have the freedom to speak. In China, humans make consequences for my freedom to speak.

All governments limit or build consequences for the populace. Some are needed. If you rob a bank, the consequence in many places is imprisonment or worse. Government is tasked with shaping consequences for actions. If all lived a life of love for their neighbor, there would be little need for government. Government does not save us, but structures us when we fall short of living a life that cares for others above ourselves.

The things I value the US government for are the sane and lacked consequences for speak, religion, and finances (to a point). Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness thing.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Even Jefferson recognized that God is the source of our rights/freedoms.

This is why the Bill of Rights states what government CAN NOT do more than what it can.

Many people are not even familiar with the Tenth Amendment.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

There was a strong belief that government should not control, only order.

Now how am I going to swing all this back to the Russian hacking story? The founders recognized that not all the things the government would do would be beneficial to the populace. Trusting it simplistically is not wise. Challenging it and keeping pressure for it to stay smaller is a natural balance or all governments to work to amass power and control more. If this was not the case, the 10th Amendment would not be needed.

So did Russia try to affect the elections? I am sure some external government did. I think of much of the "gifts" to the Clinton Foundation from the Middle East and other governments. China has tried to funnel money into other presidential campaigns. US Government does try to mess with other elections too. The US Government is not altruistic on this. I would be surprised if the Russian government did not try something. Why is this such a big story? Clinton lost because of the corruption she struggles with, the doubt many had that she would help the job situation, and the need for the US government to go in a different path than the past 8 years. Remember, she campaigned on continuing Obama's policies. Those policies had a almost 70% disapproval rating. Many people wanted something different.

The question is did the Russian, Chinese, Middle East involvement change the election? I am not hearing anyone sane saying it did. Assange said the leaks came from disgruntled DNC workers. I suspect Bernie people. So far everything he has made available on wikileaks is accurate. Why would he lie when he has tried to be accurate about the wikileaks posts? it makes sense that the leaks were internal. I am not saying we rule out Russia, I am just saying that they may not be at fault here. SO why is everyone jumping to them as first choice instead of disgruntled DNC people?

I think because those who are driving this (Soros), thinks it sounds worse then disgruntled citizens trying to affect the election. It is a way to delegitimize the election in any way they can with the press on the electors to switch their votes. The electors job is to represent their electorate, not Hollywood types.

I agree with Putin about one thing. "Put up or shut up." If there is evidence, make the case. if not, get over yourself and accept that many people (70%) did not want to go int he same direction we were going.

[Josh]

Russia Influences U.S. Election By Telling The Truth About Democrats

[Robert]

Russia Influences U.S. Election By Telling The Truth About [s]Democrats[/s] {politicians}

[appleman2006]

Russia Influences U.S. Election By Telling The Truth About Democrats

Yup. Even President Obama in his press conference the other day did not challenge the truth of what had been leaked. He simply stated that all of us would have things in our private emails that we might not want public. Well yeah.

I just find it ironic that the public person most guilty of misusing email security was in fact the one that may of got burned by it the hardest. Fate does some strange things.

[temporal1]

i may be seeing this as too simplistic.
but. i sense "the big deal" the DNC/establishment politicians has with Russia, no matter what else they throw out there, is - Russia refused to be bullied/extorted over the U.S. stated "priority" foreign policy on homosexuals.
had Russia complied, i seriously doubt all this drama would have ensued.

yes. i believe they are that small, vindictive, short-sighted, self-centered, and manipulative.

[Bootstrap]

I agree with Putin about one thing. "Put up or shut up." If there is evidence, make the case. if not, get over yourself and accept that many people (70%) did not want to go int he same direction we were going.

"Put up or shut up" means "let's have hearings and investigate". Both the CIA and the FBI think that should happen. So far, Trump is saying that there should not be an investigation. That's one of the reasons people are trying to put the investigation in place now.

And of course, Clinton won the popular vote, but that's all irrelevant with our electoral system. Nixon would have won the election without the Watergate breakins, but Watergate was still a crime.

So did Russia try to affect the elections? I am sure some external government did.

The FBI and the CIA seem to be sure that it was Russia. Both Republican and Democratic lawmakers seem to believe the evidence is strong enough that there should be an investigation. Obama certainly does. The FBI and CIA have not told the public everything they know, and we will probably never know everything, but deciding how to release enough information to be clear without compromising security would certainly be an important part of any investigation.

We did not need to identify Deep Throat to conclude that Watergate was real. We were able to use evidence that he produced and verify it.

I assume that anyone nervous about abuse of government power would not want to let Trump stop the investigation from proceeding. Anyone wonder why Trump wants to protect the Russians from an investigation?

[Bootstrap]

i may be seeing this as too simplistic.
but. i sense "the big deal" the DNC/establishment politicians has with Russia, no matter what else they throw out there, is - Russia refused to be bullied/extorted over the U.S. stated "priority" foreign policy on homosexuals.
had Russia complied, i seriously doubt all this drama would have ensued.

The CIA and FBI don't work for the DNC. Neither do Ryan or McConnell.

I think we would have problems with any country hacking to affect our elections. But Russia is a country that our military chain of command has often called the greatest threat to the United States, it has invaded its neighbor Ukraine quite recently and is behind massacres in Syria, and Trump has interesting ties to Russia. Trump consistently promoted Putin's point of view on various issues during the campaign, which really surprised our allies, and he praised Putin and other authoritarian leaders that we don't usually think of as democratic. So Trump's ties to Russia and Putin are one other thing that just might be investigated.

But we are in early stages of this news, and the investigation is just beginning. We'll eventually know a lot more about what the facts are and which parts of all the possible speculation turn out to be true.

[Wayne in Maine]

Russia Influences U.S. Election By Telling The Truth About Democrats

I heard the point made that the Russians did what the US media is supposed to do.

[Bootstrap]

Russia Influences U.S. Election By Telling The Truth About Democrats

I heard the point made that the Russians did what the US media is supposed to do.

The US media is supposed to hack into the private email of campaigns? Is that really what you want?

Suppose the RNC email had been released to the same extent. Don't you think there would be at least as much interesting stuff for the media to report on?

[temporal1]

my simplistic+general overview above was not regarding this hacking dispute, alone.
the trend has been to attempt to "channel" prior Cold War era attitudes about Russia.
personally, i suspect it's based on Russia's refusal of U.S. attempts to control Russia's domestic policies (specifically on homosexuality.)

why shouldn't they resist?
it's established, the U.S. has been attempting to control this in all countries, openly, and through extortion. other countries do not appreciate U.S. meddling in everything.

i have no idea how trump will proceed.
i seriously doubt homosexuality will continue to be named "priority foreign policy." it's surprising this was ever the case, even for 1 or 2 terms.

comparing Nixon's experience with Watergate is not apples-to-apples with what might have happened, had Nixon held office after Bill Clinton. in the era of legal and moral relativism, "no one" (in high office) sacrifices their office over indiscretions, large or small.