Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Robert
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote:This is the first time I know of that a foreign country selectively released hacked information to influence the result of an American election.
How do you know they selectively released things? The RNC said they beefed up cyber security after the FBI warned them and the DNC did not. Podesto was phished, not hacked. What if they released what they had? We have no way of knowing if they had more and Assange is still saying that his source was not Russia. Do you have cause not to believe him? I do not know much about him other than anything released through Wikileaks seems to be accurate.
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Josh
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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I'd like to hear an Anabaptist perspective on this.

For starters, how do we not know God orchestrated "Russia" influencing America's election?
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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Josh wrote:I'd like to hear an Anabaptist perspective on this.

For starters, how do we not know God orchestrated "Russia" influencing America's election?
I think an Anabaptist perspective on this starts here: We aren't experts on cybersecurity or intelligence or foreign policy, we don't know all the details of Trump's life or Putin's, we probably shouldn't believe the propaganda from any of these sides without a lot of proof. It is foolhardy to be overly certain in things we know little about, and probably not necessary to spend the many hours we would need to have an opinion worth listening to on these things.

Assuming we know better than those who study these things carefully for a living is probably pure arrogance. And it is especially bad if we imply that there is something wrong with our brethren if they don't agree with our political opinions.

The Kingdoms of this world, the media, and American political factions can sort themselves out.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:This is the first time I know of that a foreign country selectively released hacked information to influence the result of an American election.
How do you know they selectively released things? The RNC said they beefed up cyber security after the FBI warned them and the DNC did not. Podesto was phished, not hacked. What if they released what they had? We have no way of knowing if they had more and Assange is still saying that his source was not Russia. Do you have cause not to believe him? I do not know much about him other than anything released through Wikileaks seems to be accurate.
I know that the CIA, FBI, NSA, and Obama all implied that they had more and selectively released it. I also have reason to believe that Assange is at least being coy here, perhaps his source was not directly Russian, perhaps he believed that Guccifer was Romanian, perhaps ... at any rate, we will all find out more over time. But I do tend to think more is known than what we know, and we will learn more over time.
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Robert
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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Bootstrap wrote:I know that the CIA, FBI, NSA, and Obama all implied that they had more and selectively released it.
So politicians and organizations who's primary role is propaganda implies and you consider that credible?
Josh wrote:I'd like to hear an Anabaptist perspective on this.
This comes to mind for some reason.
[bible]eccl 1,2-9[/bible]

8-)
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

Post by Bootstrap »

Ecclesiastes is very appropriate here.

We aren't the experts we pretend to be. Even if we were, is politics really worth the attention we give it? Is our devotion to politics bearing good fruit? Can we ever become experts on the inner workings of That Other Kingdom without making it a central focus?

Look at what we do here, and in most stories on politics. We don't know the facts on either story. (I don't think the Buzzfeed story is the same story as the Russian Hacking story.) We're waiting to see what information will be released over time. We cannot be experts on the facts, but it's so easy to pretend we are.

So when we don't know the facts, we pretend to know the motives of each player. That might help you guess well, but the facts may flatly contradict even a good guess. And to really be able to guess what's going on here, you have to be expert on the motivations of at least the main players who seem to be involved ...
  • Trump
  • Trump's supporters
  • Mainstream Republicans - and all other branches of the Republican party
  • Democrats of all stripes
  • Republican opposition researchers
  • Democratic opposition researchers
  • CIA, FBI, NSA
  • Vladimir Putin
  • British intelligence
  • Media on all sides
Nobody here is an expert on the motivations of all these players, or how these motivations affect what happens beneath the surface? And perhaps that's not what we as Anabaptist Christians need to be focusing on. If we don't make that our life's work, we probably won't ever become the experts on these things.

So why not sit back and pray for our leaders as the story unfolds? Why not assume that we probably know very little about these things most of the time?

Let's remember who we are. And who we are not.
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Robert
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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Bootstrap wrote:So why not sit back and pray for our leaders as the story unfolds? Why not assume that we probably know very little about these things most of the time?
It is also okay for people to state their opinions, even if they are wrong. We are not setting policy here, but speaking of the cuff on a lot of things. We do not have to be professional or experts to speak. It is also okay to be wrong when we do speak if we are being sincere and just sharing our opinions. Sometimes speaking and listening to others opinions can help us grow our knowledge. I also have no problem with someone having an opinion with little information as long as they are honest about their position. All the research in the world also can not give a person wisdom. So often we mistake information for wisdom.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a gut feel for things.
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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Bootstrap wrote:Let's remember who we are. And who we are not.
Let's also remember who the government figures and agencies are and are not. Specifically, they are not God. They are people and organizations of various motivations who have been established by God to rule the land under threat of violence. Very little of godliness can be expected of any of them because they are "agents of wrath." They are just doing their thing. Let's do ours.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Let's remember who we are. And who we are not.
Let's also remember who the government figures and agencies are and are not. Specifically, they are not God. They are people and organizations of various motivations who have been established by God to rule the land under threat of violence. Very little of godliness can be expected of any of them because they are "agents of wrath." They are just doing their thing. Let's do ours.
Amen.

I do think what they do makes a difference, and it's important to pray for them, but we aren't the experts on foreign policy, military strategy, macroeconomics, computer security, etc. that we pretend to be. That's not our job.
Robert wrote:It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a gut feel for things.
Of course not. After all, the media makes sure that anyone who consumes it gets a gut feel for things - and that gut feel is what they are promoting. They want you to feel their way.

But it really does take a rocket scientist to have a gut feel for rocket science. A "gut feel" is something you get with expertise. If you don't know the difference between a carburetor and a spark plug, you don't have a gut feel for automotive repair. I now have a gut feel for trail running and for backpacking. I didn't start out that way.
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Re: Credible News Sources: The Russian Hacking Story

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Bootstrap wrote:If you don't know the difference between a carburetor and a spark plug, you don't have a gut feel for automotive repair.
My wife has an innate ability to know what we should do without having all the details and doing all the analysis I sometimes do. I have learned to trust this wisdom of hers that can make a judgement without all the facts. She runs about 90% correct. With all my analysis, I run about 75% correct. By working together to figure things out, we run a 95% rate.

She doesn't know how to change a spark plug, but knows if a vehicle is worth fixing. She also knows when a mechanic is trying to charge more than they should without even knowing what is wrong.

Facts do not always give us the correct answer since all are interpreted. Some people have a way of knowing.
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