College Education: "us" versus "them"

[Josh]

So maybe I'm totally out of date or mistaken. But I thought colleges were geared more for the practical end of things. For instance, someone apprenticing for a plumber or electrician, or journeyman carpenter has to take a certain number of six week college courses during their apprenticeship (this is in Canada). There are longer courses, like the one to become a Certified Crop Advisor -- I think this is a two year course.

This is not the case at all. In many fields of study, the first two years are spent entirely on "gen eds" (general education courses). These will be courses like Humanities, English Lit, History, and if someone needs it, might include basic math too.

There are practical courses in university as well. So isn't it more what you choose to take?

You can't. Look at the course catalog at a typical university:

Core Curriculum

Forty to 50 percent of the courses needed for the bachelor’s degree are in the area of the core curriculum (CC). These are in academic areas considered by the faculty to be indispensable to a liberal education, and therefore not to be left wholly to student election. The student must demonstrate competency in fundamental academic skills and must fulfill distribution requirements in the major areas of knowledge. Ordinarily, most of these core curriculum requirements are completed by the end of the fourth semester.

My other question is, What really is meant by critical thinking, and how is it taught? Maybe that would be an interesting thread in itself.

It would be, and I'm a big fan of critical thinking. My experience just happens to be that more critical thinkers come out of a mid-tier Mennonite church school than come out of a present-day 4 year university program.

[Bootstrap]

College education in 2016 mostly consists of being brainwashed to think like a liberal: learning about Safe Spaces, why orthodox Christianity can't possibly be correct, and why white, heterosexual cisgendered men (especially those terrible non-college-educated white msn who voted for Trump) are the root of all evil in the world.

Are you thinking of a particular college? I really don't think that's true at Duke or Chapel Hill, the colleges closest to me. Yes, a lot of people have these perspectives, but a good college education requires discussion, debate, and talking things out with people who often disagree.

Here's a University of Chicago acceptance letter that points this out:

I think education is valuable, but I don't think the above education is of any value at all.

The kind of indoctrination you talk about is the opposite of what college should be. Even if it were indoctrination that promotes opinions I agree with.

[Bootstrap]

This is not the case at all. In many fields of study, the first two years are spent entirely on "gen eds" (general education courses). These will be courses like Humanities, English Lit, History, and if someone needs it, might include basic math too.

These are some of the classes where people can really learn critical thinking skills, if they are taught well.

Sadly, the push is more and more in the direction of emphasizing the kind of practical job-oriented teaching that Lester is talking about. Classics departments are having a rough time now, because most people go to college mainly to get a job.

[Josh]

Chicago is fairly unique for its stance on things like trigger warnings.

My experience is based on being part of the administration of a large state university, a midsized Catholic university, and a student and later a contractor to a small Friends college. I was also part of some other groups on campus like an auxiliary of the RSCJ and Rainbow Educators.

University is not a welcoming place to someone who wants to hold to a traditional view of human sexuality, for example - even at what would be perceived of as a middle of the road, non-Jesuit Catholic school.

[lesterb]

I've transferred my questions about critical thinking to this thread.

[Neto]

A bachelor's degree (4 year) will have the general studies courses, while an Associates degree will not (or far fewer). I suspect that most Bible colleges also offer both 2 & 1 year Bible degrees, and many will have associates degrees in things like Missionary Nursing, that concentrate on broadening a 'secular' nursing degree to include not only Bible courses, but to teach medical procedures that would only be encountered in a Doctoral program at a medical school. As 'pioneer' missionaries, for instance, we sometimes needed to perform medical procedures that even a nurse would not be called upon to do in the States. (Neither of us had any formal medical training at all - we often referred to a book called "Where There is No Doctor", and the mission had it's own medical book, which even included things like amputations & the like. Fortunately we were never called upon to do anything like that, but we had to diagnose illnesses, sew up cuts, and give shots.)

I don't think 'secular education' is anywhere near as 'scary' for a Christian as some make it out to be. I believe that if a young person is trained in critical thinking as a child, they will stand firm when challenged with anti-Christian theories.

[Just for information sake, I have a Bachelor of Science in Missiology (Crown College, then St. Paul Bible College), and did several semesters of graduate level Linguists (University of Oklahoma, through the Summer Institute of Linguistics), but did not complete a Masters.]

[Haystack]

A bachelor's degree (4 year) will have the general studies courses, while an Associates degree will not (or far fewer).

I would say the general studies depend on the school. In my area Associates Degrees have just as many general studies as a Bachelors. Many people will do their general ed at a junior college and then transfer to a UC to take their major courses. For my Associates degree there happens to be more general ed classes than I need for my major.

[Josh]

A bachelor's degree (4 year) will have the general studies courses, while an Associates degree will not (or far fewer).

I would say the general studies depend on the school. In my area Associates Degrees have just as many general studies as a Bachelors. Many people will do their general ed at a junior college and then transfer to a UC to take their major courses. For my Associates degree there happens to be more general ed classes than I need for my major.

Yep. As I keep saying, this has been a recent change to course catalogues and graduation requirements within the past 5 - 10 years. Those who went to school and graduated 20 or 30 years ago are often unaware of how much this has changed, and how much of the gen ed's are pure, unadulterated indoctrination.

[cmbl]

So maybe I'm totally out of date or mistaken. But I thought colleges were geared more for the practical end of things. For instance, someone apprenticing for a plumber or electrician, or journeyman carpenter has to take a certain number of six week college courses during their apprenticeship (this is in Canada). There are longer courses, like the one to become a Certified Crop Advisor -- I think this is a two year course.

This is not the case at all. In many fields of study, the first two years are spent entirely on "gen eds" (general education courses). These will be courses like Humanities, English Lit, History, and if someone needs it, might include basic math too.

(emphasis mine)

This depends heavily on the field of study. In my experience, engineering education is nearly or completely devoid of

being brainwashed to think like a liberal: learning about Safe Spaces, why orthodox Christianity can't possibly be correct, and why white, heterosexual cisgendered men (especially those terrible non-college-educated white msn who voted for Trump) are the root of all evil in the world.

The vast majority of CA's would not go/send their children to college. Of those that do, I've only ever heard of engineers, doctors and nurses. I think that if one goes, it's wise to stick to these fields (or similar) both for (1) lack of aforementioned "brainwashing" and (2) actually getting a return on investment. Should college be more than job training for technical fields? Maybe. But not at today's prices.

[Bootstrap]

Should college be more than job training for technical fields? Maybe. But not at today's prices.

Yeah. College has priced itself out of the business of education. Some of us are working on providing an education through other means.