College Education: "us" versus "them"

[Wade]

We're having a winter Bible school, and the one preacher is focusing on creation principles. Last night he spoke about work. It was very obvious that in his mind work means manual labor. For instance, he belittled a man who made a statement about his hands not being made for manual labor. He even said that such a person shouldn't be allowed to have anything to eat until he's dug a 400 ft ditch by hand.

Now maybe I'm too touchy on this subject. But I have never, in my adult life, made a living by doing manual labor. I've taught school, I've worked as a writer and editor, I've been on a corporate management team, etc. If I had to dig a 400 ft ditch, I'd need an appointment with an undertaker, I suspect.

I must admit that I'm more than a little tired of such sentiments. I've faced them all my life, and I'm sick of preachers and others who think that teaching or doing desk work isn't work. I've gotten my education by the sweat of my brow, figuratively if not literally, and I'd like to see some of these people cope with some of the things I've had to do in my life.

I'd also add that I don't think that most of the people in our congregation would look down on me for my work history. But I've been in churches where that was the case. I think some people are called to careers where education is very helpful, and some aren't. But most people should at least have high school. And once they are mature enough to handle it and know what direction they want to take in life, a couple years of college is pretty helpful. I'm not so keen on a liberal arts university degree. But most college courses tend to deal with the practical side of life.

It would be a sad church, having one just full of ditch diggers and no one do things like teach in our Christian schools. And that's coming from someone that would fit more of the description of a ditch digger...
We need balance and we need people with different skills and job inputs. None is more important than the other but rather rely on each other. That is the beauty of the church.

"For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another." 1 Corinthians 12:14-25

[appleman2006]

And perhaps I am being too harsh but may I suggest that perhaps a certain preacher should not be allowed to preach until he gets out of said ditch and gets just a bit more education.

[KingdomBuilder]

I think in the past few years there's been an increasing sense of "hey, you don't have to be college educated to be a valuable member of society". That's just what I'm seeing here.

[lesterb]

I think in the past few years there's been an increasing sense of "hey, you don't have to be college educated to be a valuable member of society". That's just what I'm seeing here.

I totally agree with that.

[ken_sylvania]

And perhaps I am being too harsh but may I suggest that perhaps a certain preacher should not be allowed to preach until he gets out of said ditch and gets just a bit more education.

Reminds me of the story of a certain preacher who is said to have held forth at length on the dangers of education. At the conclusion of his speech, an old bishop asked "Am I to understand, then, that our brother is thankful for his ignorance?"
Said the deacon, "You could put it that way, I guess."
"Well," intoned the bishop, "All I can say is, he has a great deal, a very great deal, to be thankful for!"

[Bootstrap]

Is education different from other gifts that God gives to build the body?

I'm not sure what you are defining as education? I guess I've never thought of education as a gift necessarily, but possibly as something through which other gifts can be made more useful or credible. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what education is.

People definitely mean different things by education. The kind of education I mean involves knowing how to learn, teach, and seek out knowledge, and it starts with asking the kind of questions you ask here. In classical education, critical thinking skills and expressing yourself well was an important first step before specializing in various subjects.

We're losing that as colleges focus more and more on job skills. The subjects that best teach critical reasoning are losing ground in the universities these days. Computer science, business, and other job-related disciplines are winning out. And part of this is precisely because a college education is becoming a prerequisite for many jobs these days, and college is becoming so expensive that it's hard to justify getting an education without the promise of a high paying job. Which is really hurting the kind of education I'm talking about.

Since I know Lester, let me pick on him. I don't think he has a college degree, but he does have curiosity and an critical thinking, and he can express himself well. That makes him an educated person, as I see it. There are people with college degrees who parade their academic credentials and making dogmatic statements but aren't actually interested in discussing anything in any depth. That's the worst kind of ignorance.

[Bootstrap]

I think in the past few years there's been an increasing sense of "hey, you don't have to be college educated to be a valuable member of society". That's just what I'm seeing here.

And that's an important message. Everybody is equally valuable, and deserves respect.

Critical thinking skills are like any other skill, they are useful for some things, but not everyone needs every skill. What worries me is this: as a society, we often pretend to know a great deal more than we do know, making pronouncements that are not based on any real knowledge, often insisting that anyone who disagrees with My Exalted Opinion is somehow evil and not a true Christian, and refusing to allow room for people to examine what is said to see if it is true.

That's just wrong. My opinion is no good at all if there isn't room for other people to examine it and see where it is right and where it is wrong in light of Scripture and in light of the facts. If I don't want other people to do that, I should just shut up.

[ken_sylvania]

I like to think of formal education as "Learning how to learn." Even a good eight grade education when combined with easy access to good reading material can put a person well on the way to a well rounded education. I'm not college educated, but I enjoy reading, learning, and thinking.
There are times I wish I would have taken the time for further formal education, but at the same time I'm aware that would have interfered with the on-the-job experience I've gotten.

[Bootstrap]

I like to think of formal education as "Learning how to learn." Even a good eight grade education when combined with easy access to good reading material can put a person well on the way to a well rounded education. I'm not college educated, but I enjoy reading, learning, and thinking.
There are times I wish I would have taken the time for further formal education, but at the same time I'm aware that would have interfered with the on-the-job experience I've gotten.

You certainly come across as educated.

I have known two people well who were very educated, but had only an 8th grade education. One was my grandmother, a voracious reader who loved talking things out with people who did not all agree. Another is an old black woman who was a pastor for many years, and is particularly educated about the Bible, which she knows only in the King James. She knows how to put that Bible to very good use, applying it accurately in wisdom, and she has definitely taught me a lot. So I agree with you, and know people who prove your point.

[MaxPC]

And perhaps I am being too harsh but may I suggest that perhaps a certain preacher should not be allowed to preach until he gets out of said ditch and gets just a bit more education.

Reminds me of the story of a certain preacher who is said to have held forth at length on the dangers of education. At the conclusion of his speech, an old bishop asked "Am I to understand, then, that our brother is thankful for his ignorance?"
Said the deacon, "You could put it that way, I guess."
"Well," intoned the bishop, "All I can say is, he has a great deal, a very great deal, to be thankful for!"