College Education: "us" versus "them"

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Bootstrap
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College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by Bootstrap »

Lately, there's been a lot of reporting on how the media is out of touch with people who do not have college education. I am also hearing some people express hostility toward college educated people.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a college education? Is it something we should avoid completely, or a calling for some but not for others? If some have a college education and others do not, how can we avoid letting college education become a divide in the Kingdom?

Is education different from other gifts that God gives to build the body?
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temporal1
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by temporal1 »

overall in the U.S., not speaking from an Anabaptist pov, education, very much including public ed, early years through college, was highly respected and valued. TRUSTED. people sacrificed for it. people still do sacrifice for it.

one problem being, the U.S. no longer leads the world in quality of education.
the costs have become prohibitive, both in what is taxed, and what is paid out-of-pocket.

but, financial sacrifice is secondary.
perhaps the biggest rub is, families see their beloved children (systematically) turned against them, as families, families as a concept of life, and their faith beliefs.

now, these latter things become intolerable.
in other cultures, where quality of ed is reported as higher, somehow, these countries/cultures are able to educate children and young people, without raping their minds, removing respect for families, elders, faith, etc.

from the little i witness, Anabaptists, as a whole, were "onto" indoctrination problems before others.
similar could be said of other faith-based and private schools, and home schoolers.

it's normal and desirable -
to go back to weed a garden that's gone wild, to repair the roof on a barn when needed, to oversee employees working in stores, shops; these are simply responsibilities of life on earth.

allowing foxes to run the henhouses will never work out.

ordinary people have been taken advantage of, now seeking accountability.
their pocketbooks, and their children, are at stake.

a bit late, but, "better late than never."
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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temporal1
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by temporal1 »

i say that ^^^ as one who has happily worked in school/university settings, who has sacrificed greatly for others' higher education, has watched family members dig-deep for education, etc.
fully invested!

now with serious regrets. and, anger. :(
the status quo is not acceptable.

i love education, higher education, learning of all descriptions, formal and otherwise.
not indoctrination.

"us" versus "them" was essentially non-existent 8 years ago.
working people sent their children to school and sacrificed for higher education. probably too much so, we see now.

the problems of division developed organically as a result of those taking advantage.
whenever folks feel taken advantage of, there will be unrest.

those taking advantage only make it worse by attempting to lay blame on those being used/misused, betrayed.

it was decades in-the-making, the last 8 years were the straw that broke the camel's back.
it will take extended effort to regain former respect, that was freely given.

from my pov. :-|
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with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:i love education, higher education, learning of all descriptions, formal and otherwise.
not indoctrination.
Me too.

So how do you measure learning versus indoctrination? Can we come up with a definition that applies here on MN too, not just in the university? What promotes the healthy kind of critical thinking? What shuts it down?
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temporal1
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
temporal1 wrote:i love education, higher education, learning of all descriptions, formal and otherwise.
not indoctrination.
Me too.

So how do you measure learning versus indoctrination? Can we come up with a definition that applies here on MN too, not just in the university? What promotes the healthy kind of critical thinking? What shuts it down?
for me, to look at models used in countries that are doing well in education, while not conflicting with traditional families and faith, would be a starting place.

for instance, from the very little i know, in Taiwan, more emphasis is put on academics - AND, parents are held responsible for their children being prepared to arrive at school, ready to learn. parental involvement and responsibility.

i am not interested in wholesale importation of Taiwan's education system.
but, as a word to the wise.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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silentreader
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by silentreader »

Bootstrap wrote:Lately, there's been a lot of reporting on how the media is out of touch with people who do not have college education. I am also hearing some people express hostility toward college educated people.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a college education? Is it something we should avoid completely, or a calling for some but not for others? If some have a college education and others do not, how can we avoid letting college education become a divide in the Kingdom?

Is education different from other gifts that God gives to build the body?
I'm not sure what you are defining as education? I guess I've never thought of education as a gift necessarily, but possibly as something through which other gifts can be made more useful or credible. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what education is.
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lesterb
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by lesterb »

Bootstrap wrote:Lately, there's been a lot of reporting on how the media is out of touch with people who do not have college education. I am also hearing some people express hostility toward college educated people.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a college education? Is it something we should avoid completely, or a calling for some but not for others? If some have a college education and others do not, how can we avoid letting college education become a divide in the Kingdom?

Is education different from other gifts that God gives to build the body?
I've been watching the job market, and I would say that even if it doesn't do anything else for you, a degree or diploma gives you an edge when you're looking for work.

People can't comphrehend that a high school dropout could handle a decent job. I generally downplay my education, and simply focus on my experience and abilities. That used to work, but today, when most job applications are computer screened, it doesn't. If you don't meet the educational requirements, about the only way you can get a foot in the door is by knowing someone who already works for the company, or by working with a head hunter who will vouch for you.
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lesterb
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by lesterb »

We're having a winter Bible school, and the one preacher is focusing on creation principles. Last night he spoke about work. It was very obvious that in his mind work means manual labor. For instance, he belittled a man who made a statement about his hands not being made for manual labor. He even said that such a person shouldn't be allowed to have anything to eat until he's dug a 400 ft ditch by hand.

Now maybe I'm too touchy on this subject. But I have never, in my adult life, made a living by doing manual labor. I've taught school, I've worked as a writer and editor, I've been on a corporate management team, etc. If I had to dig a 400 ft ditch, I'd need an appointment with an undertaker, I suspect.

I must admit that I'm more than a little tired of such sentiments. I've faced them all my life, and I'm sick of preachers and others who think that teaching or doing desk work isn't work. I've gotten my education by the sweat of my brow, figuratively if not literally, and I'd like to see some of these people cope with some of the things I've had to do in my life.

I'd also add that I don't think that most of the people in our congregation would look down on me for my work history. But I've been in churches where that was the case. I think some people are called to careers where education is very helpful, and some aren't. But most people should at least have high school. And once they are mature enough to handle it and know what direction they want to take in life, a couple years of college is pretty helpful. I'm not so keen on a liberal arts university degree. But most college courses tend to deal with the practical side of life.
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RZehr
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by RZehr »

lesterb wrote:We're having a winter Bible school, and the one preacher is focusing on creation principles. Last night he spoke about work. It was very obvious that in his mind work means manual labor. For instance, he belittled a man who made a statement about his hands not being made for manual labor. He even said that such a person shouldn't be allowed to have anything to eat until he's dug a 400 ft ditch by hand.

Now maybe I'm too touchy on this subject. But I have never, in my adult life, made a living by doing manual labor. I've taught school, I've worked as a writer and editor, I've been on a corporate management team, etc. If I had to dig a 400 ft ditch, I'd need an appointment with an undertaker, I suspect.

I must admit that I'm more than a little tired of such sentiments. I've faced them all my life, and I'm sick of preachers and others who think that teaching or doing desk work isn't work. I've gotten my education by the sweat of my brow, figuratively if not literally, and I'd like to see some of these people cope with some of the things I've had to do in my life.

I'd also add that I don't think that most of the people in our congregation would look down on me for my work history. But I've been in churches where that was the case. I think some people are called to careers where education is very helpful, and some aren't. But most people should at least have high school. And once they are mature enough to handle it and know what direction they want to take in life, a couple years of college is pretty helpful. I'm not so keen on a liberal arts university degree. But most college courses tend to deal with the practical side of life.
:up:
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temporal1
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Re: College Education: "us" versus "them"

Post by temporal1 »

i grew up in a family that was, overall, suspicious of "too much formal education."
i did well in school, i did not share this view. i was thought of as "different." :P

my life has been in, and between, both spectrums, certainly, many are guilty of being education snobs! snobbery/reverse snobbery.

i am not really bothered by either extreme. they exist, i'm not in control of either end, in any way.
most fall in the middle, both in experience and attitudes.

however, i have no problem in demanding accountability in the education system.
i have far more trouble in accepting how (so many of us) allowed so much to go unchecked+unquestioned for so long! that's the real problem. the price has come due.
to me, that's "ok." it's healthy.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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