Trump cutting military spending?

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Bootstrap
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Trump cutting military spending?

Post by Bootstrap »

This was suggested in another thread:
Josh wrote:If anything, a lot of the #NeverTrump crowd on both the left and right is in a cold panic because Trump doesn't seem to be interested in continuing to promote and coddle the American war machine. I find it very disingenuous when supposed peace-loving Christians see fit to ally themselves with this crowd.
Is Trump really cutting back on the American war machine?

That's not the impression I get looking at his budget. Here's an overview from military.com.

And when I look at the writings of people like Max Boot and Peter Feaver, one of their main points is that Trump seems to care more about military power than diplomacy.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/22/tru ... oft-power/
Trump is singularly failing to “close the deal” for America abroad. Note that, while it’s within his power to unilaterally end supposedly “bad deals” like the Trans-Pacific Partnership or NAFTA, his promises to conclude “great deals” are utterly hollow. He hasn’t made any appreciable progress on any new trade negotiations, even the bilateral ones that he favors for mysterious reasons over multilateral (and hence more beneficial) accords. Nor, needless to say, has he had any success in renegotiating the Paris climate accord, which he (wrongly) claims is harmful to America. Trump has managed to convince the United Nations Security Council to toughen sanctions on North Korea, but only because Russia and China have no intention of enforcing the resolutions. He had no luck in selling his decision to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem or his desire to redo the Iran nuclear deal. Allies simply don’t want to help America, no matter how much Trump blusters and bluffs.
Trump is entirely focused on American hard power — military and economic might. What he doesn’t realize is that much of America’s success as a superpower has rested on our “soft power.” America is an empire by invitation: We have troops in more than 170 countries and military alliances with as many as 60 countries, because most other nations do not feel threatened by American power. Anti-Americanism is a fact of life, but the United States simply has not engendered the same kind of fear and loathing that less altruistic, more militaristic would-be hegemons have done — whether Habsburg Spain and Napoleonic France or Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Today, China and Russia, both illiberal great powers, have a few satraps but almost no real friends. They are regarded with suspicion and hostility by their neighbors.
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Josh
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

Post by Josh »

Yes, Bootstrap.

It's been 2 years, and so far the U.S. has managed to avoid starting another war. Nothing has happened other than a few cruise missiles fired at targets in Syria, and done so in a way to minimise loss of human life.

That is something that Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama all seemed to be unable to do.

It really irritates me that folks like you refuse to see or acknowledge this. Your hatred of Trump runs so deep that you can't acknowledge anything positive about the person.

The attitude of "well what matters is military spending, not whether American soldiers are being deployed to kill thousands of people" is likewise an irritating attitude.
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

Post by temporal1 »

(Josh posted as i was writing. this is a bit of overlap. :)

my perception is, military spending is up, however, military action appears to have decreased.

when Trump was first elected, i was (more than surprised) to hear from my family on the west coast about fears of cuts to military spending .. lots of military industry on the west coast.

i told them that was seriously unlikely to happen.
i advised them to stay neutral and wait 6 months ..

from what i understand, the industry is moving along, no lay-offs.

Boeing recently secured a big contract for 47 787 commercial jets (that might have gone to France.) in an earlier report, i read the contract includes a future option for 20+ more 787’s.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/boeing- ... lines.html

also in the news .. a petition to nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eace-prize

regarding the Peace Prize, like my advice to my family above, i would, “wait and see.”
but, i prefer chatter of Peace Prizes rather than nuclear war, which was on the table for years.
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Robert
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

Post by Robert »

Trump has raised military spending, but seems to be working towards a smaller footprint in the world. Peace through strength can easily be seen through his policies.

One thing that seems to be bringing the North Koreans to the table is what was about to be deployed to South Korea and the military sales he is making available to the Pacific countries. China was forced to force NK to negotiate since they do not want all that military might on their coast.

What few seem to know is that Trump was planning on deploying nuclear weapons to South Korea and/or Japan. This the Chinese could not accept and have now demanded NK denuclearize.

Seems his desire to have a massive military, yet disdain for nation building may actually bring more peace than all the back handed messing with other governments. Woodrow Wilson force the US out of it's isolationist policies. I see us moving in that general direction. I think this will bring more peace than what has been going on since WW1.

So, spending is up, but involvement is going down. he wants to shut down a lot of US bases in other countries. He has shown that we do not need boots on the ground to deal with rogue countries that use WMD. He destroys their abilities while avoiding lost of life. Interesting strategy. I suspect this will be 21st century war now.
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:my perception is, military spending is up, however, military action appears to have decreased.
I'm not sure.

War zone deaths are up for the first time in six years.

Last I knew, we were increasing military presence in most countries.
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temporal1 wrote:also in the news .. a petition to nominate Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eace-prize
We'll see. It's possible that Trump will do things to lower American military spending, bring our troops back, reduce military threats and bluster, or lessen the nuclear threat. It's also possible that Trump will start a new nuclear arms race. The jury is still out on that.
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

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Robert wrote:Seems his desire to have a massive military, yet disdain for nation building may actually bring more peace than all the back handed messing with other governments.
We'll see.

So far, I think this is mostly rhetoric. We can measure accomplishments when they have been accomplished.
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

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Bootstrap wrote:We'll see.
You sound like Trump. He says this often. :lol:
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Robert wrote:Seems his desire to have a massive military, yet disdain for nation building may actually bring more peace than all the back handed messing with other governments.
We'll see.

So far, I think this is mostly rhetoric. We can measure accomplishments when they have been accomplished.
The accomplishment I am looking at so far is "not starting new wars" and "not invading more countries". This seemingly minor accomplishment is one his predecessors failed to do going back to Reagan.

Exactly what gives you this sense of cynicism and distrust? Would it be better if Trump were invading new countries and starting new wars like Obama and Bush Jr. did?
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

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Josh wrote:The accomplishment I am looking at so far is "not starting new wars" and "not invading more countries". This seemingly minor accomplishment is one his predecessors failed to do going back to Reagan.
Many other presidents managed this for 2 years at a time. I think this is way too early to assess the Trump presidency.
Josh wrote:Exactly what gives you this sense of cynicism and distrust? Would it be better if Trump were invading new countries and starting new wars like Obama and Bush Jr. did?
I am mostly counting up what can be measured as of today. Lots more military spending, more troops deployed, nuclear buildup and rhetoric about renewing the arms race, more military deaths.

This thread spun off of another thread where you said I shouldn't be concerned about Trump's personal morality because of all he is accomplishing for world peace. I don't see that he has accomplished much yet. If he does, that's worth talking about.
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Re: Trump cutting military spending?

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It’s pretty obvious there’s nothing Trump could do that would be good enough, in your eyes. Broker a Korean Peninsula Peace deal? Not good enough.
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