temporal1 wrote:laws are for the law-abiding. proven beyond question.
the lawless, the criminally insane, do not give one whit about any law. proven beyond question.
Right. That's why laws have to be enforced.
Let's take this to its logical conclusion: we would decide not to outlaw anything at all because outlaws don't follow laws. If murder is outlawed, only outlaws will murder. If theft is outlawed, only outlaws will steal. If rape is outlawed, only outlaws will rape. But we do pass laws against these things and create legal structures to enforce those laws.
Guns are legal for most citizens, but not for felons and the criminally insane. That is already outlawed, we need ways to enforce those laws.
Government exists to protect us from at least some of the consequences of lawlessness.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
most now do not believe existing laws are/will be enforced.
the phrase, “the revolving door” of courtrooms has been around a long time.
with each tragedy, errors+oversights of those who “are supposed to be” watching out, preventing, are made public - deaths result. local police, DCFS, doctors, teachers, friends, now, the FBI.
whoa to any official who falsely detains/arrests!
all these reasons point to mike’s post, Page 2, regarding armed security in schools.
i see no amount of money, no fancy legal words, no changes in policies, that will mitigate such widespread systematic failures. esp not in government schools.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
Guns are highly illegal in Chicago, yet they have sky high murder rates. It would seem a good place to start is simply better enforcement of laws that already exist, with more of a focus on criminals and less on law-abiding citizens.
Josh wrote:Guns are highly illegal in Chicago, yet they have sky high murder rates. It would seem a good place to start is simply better enforcement of laws that already exist, with more of a focus on criminals and less on law-abiding citizens.
I agree, enforcing existing laws is the place to start. But I don't think you can really do that without also enforcing background checks on all gun sales - a measure that even a large majority of NRA members support.
For what it's worth, I'm going camping with a bunch of survivalists this weekend. I think most open-carry.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Josh wrote:Guns are highly illegal in Chicago, yet they have sky high murder rates. It would seem a good place to start is simply better enforcement of laws that already exist, with more of a focus on criminals and less on law-abiding citizens.
I agree, enforcing existing laws is the place to start. But I don't think you can really do that without also enforcing background checks on all gun sales - a measure that even a large majority of NRA members support.
For what it's worth, I'm going camping with a bunch of survivalists this weekend. I think most open-carry.
there is no way to do background checks on guns bought+sold illegally.
criminals do not comply with law. they do not bother with FOID cards. they do not play nice.
i’m not sure about what NRA members support, i don’t believe anyone on this forum does, either.
if using lib sources like the chart on Page 2, i would not accept that as credible.
please post a video of your weekend. with audio.
Last edited by temporal1 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
Jazman wrote:
Wow... isn't this just a bit insensitive?
Can't imagine why people would get emotional when people are being slaughtered. Of course, getting emotional whenever anyone suggests gun rights are not the only rights that matter makes perfect sense.
Seriously, I assume we all agree this is a real problem. And I certainly hope people who get emotional about this issue will allow people on the other side of the issue to have emotions too.
There are more deaths from toaster mishaps than school shootings, but that doesn’t mean emotional reactions calling for the government to ban or restrict toasters are a good idea.
Are you serious??? Wow. That kind of puts it in perspective.
Josh wrote:Guns are highly illegal in Chicago, yet they have sky high murder rates. It would seem a good place to start is simply better enforcement of laws that already exist, with more of a focus on criminals and less on law-abiding citizens.
I agree, enforcing existing laws is the place to start. But I don't think you can really do that without also enforcing background checks on all gun sales - a measure that even a large majority of NRA members support.
For what it's worth, I'm going camping with a bunch of survivalists this weekend. I think most open-carry.
Illinois doesn’t allow private sales of firearms without extensive background checks.
So why does Chicago have such a serious gun violence problem?
Why should states that have a lot less violence then Illinois be forced to adopt the same laws which aren’t working in Illinois?
Ultimately, why do you think criminals should be the only people with guns?
Josh wrote: Illinois doesn’t allow private sales of firearms without extensive background checks.
So why does Chicago have such a serious gun violence problem?
Why should states that have a lot less violence then Illinois
be forced to adopt the same laws which aren’t working in Illinois?
Ultimately, why do you think criminals should be the only people with guns?
chicago is just north of me.
in the last 10 years, i could not count the times i’ve heard these questions, even more, i wonder about these questions too often to recall. i LIVE with these questions.
violent crime is now increasing in downstate Illinois.
honestly, i suspect it may have much to do with politicians removing housing from chicago, quietly moving residents to downstate .. as if this would do anything more than share crime ..
i will not say this is the intended goal. however, it is the unintended consequence.
when people move, if they have not addressed their personal problems before their move - they will move their (heart) problems with them. “you can run, but, you cannot hide.” is an old saying.
along with many others, my heart breaks knowing chicago crime, and the state of illinois, were ignored by obama in his 8 years in office. his very few+brief visits were at times of elections. he dropped in, said a few words, and was outta there. often on his way to hawaii.
i often wonder why there is no discussion of the former big crime problems in NYC, and, how did they effectively mitigate those problems?? - why attempt to reinvent the wheel?
in the meanwhile, during those prior 10 years, different politicians have offered help to the chicago police department - if i recall, the prior DNC governor offered use of the illinois national guard, rejected by chicago’s mayor .. possibly a similar offer since? i’m not an insider.
when the location was being chosen for obama’s “presidential library” (in reality, to be a center for political activism, shudder) .. the people of chicago made it known, they wanted a trauma center, instead! which sounded like a very wise+useful request (to me:) No. Not discussed.
i try not to dwell on, “what if obama had focused on cleaning up problems in chicago the way rudy giuliani focused on rampant crime in new york city?!” .. but, i do wonder why that did not happen. why nothing happened. except increased gun violence.
some noted, “obama was the greatest gun salesman of all time.”
sounds credible to me. if so, i cannot believe he was ignorant of the fact.
if this was unintended, which i must believe it was unintended, why would he not change his course of action? no change is detected. possibly, doubling-down. no improved results.
the identical questions above are asked, over+over+over.
(shared before) - i believe this clip below goes a long way in ordinary plain language, in painting the picture of sadness and disappointment ordinary people have over: no change.
Chicago Unchained: Black Activists Slam Democrat Plantation
i wonder if trump ever considers building a new state of the art trauma center in chicago?
honestly, i believe it would be well received (by the people, not by chicago politicians.)
what better way to say, “you matter, we care. let’s work together.”
maybe i’ll suggest it on the White House website.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
Josh wrote:Ultimately, why do you think criminals should be the only people with guns?
Why do you think children should be gunned down randomly? You don't, and I don't think that criminals should be the only people with guns. Please stop repeating this false emotional claim over and over again.
If I were king of the world, guns would be licensed and registered just like cars. Many people own cars legally. There is no constitutional reason we could not do that. I doubt that Trump is going to take things that far or that the Republican congress would agree to that. In a democracy, we can only do what we can get agreement for, subject to the Constitution.
A single city like Chicago or a single state can't really do that if it is in the middle of a country where there is such a thriving black market for guns. Suppose Chicago were the only place in the United States where cars needed to be licensed and registered, how would that work?
Beyond that, it sure would be helpful to track gun deaths nationally and fund research so we can really understand the issue and what is most likely to help.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Illinois doesn’t allow private sales of firearms without extensive background checks.
