Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:How would you answer the question, Should there be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than other food purchasers?
We already do when it comes to alcohol.

I think this is a hard question, and I am an outlier in many ways. When I student taught in inner-city Flint, I noticed that most of my student's parents bought a lot more meat than I did - I bought a single chicken most weeks and used it in several meals, but otherwise bought no meat. But I also know how to cook and eat a lot of different kinds of things, I was vegetarian for three years, and I don't eat like most people.

On balance, I don't think we should say "don't eat any meat at all, it's too expensive". Too many people feel that meat is at the heart of a healthy diet, and that's a cultural value that runs deep. But we could easily say we won't pay for sugary drinks, candy, or potato chips. We could give bonuses for buying vegetables and fruit. Whether or not this is a good answer, I think these are important questions to discuss.
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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

GaryK wrote:We have been working with a family of 5 that gets around $900.00/month in food money. The wife complained once that she was so ready to get her next month's amount because they were tired of eating chicken every night for dinner. She also once complained that they had to eat pork 3 evenings in a row because they didn't have anything else.

Last year she began working one day per week for a family in our church who run a bakery/coffee shoppe, working about 4 hours per week. Her monthly take home pay averaged less than $150.00. When she went to reapply for her food benefits she discovered they were going to cut the amount by $200.00.

Meanwhile, the family in our church she worked for has been struggling to make ends meet with 9 in the family and for a time were doing without meat in their diet.

Looking at all this it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is in serious need of reform and I'm happy to see that the conversation is taking place.
Great real-life example.
to repeat, some years ago, we accepted food stamps for a few weeks.
no where near $900/mo! (2 children)
never in my life, before, or since, did we have such a generous food budget! i still remember the shocked feeling of food shopping without concern of cost. it was an other-worldly feeling.
honestly, the way things are for me now, i read this, fighting tears. not that i need a lot of food!!
i’m doing fine. it would be luxurious to be forced to eat chicken or pork daily, while simply waiting for “better” to come in a few days. :-|

for those who care, U.S. founders were “hep” to political corruption, manipulating lawmakers.
instructions (to those freely inheriting what they structured) warned to hold “representatives” accountable! - they knew full-well, lack of accountability in humans/human constructs leads to no good.

there is no “once+done.” we are lazy fools, really-really want everything to be “once+done.”
nothing in scriptures suggests this temporal world is about “once+done.”

i agree, regular maintenance is a necessity. there is room for improvement.
when the barn roof needs fixing: it does not auto-repair.

in this thread, members like mike and appleman have special insights.
they own businesses in the food industry, have first-person experience with food, vendors, gov, and customers of all description ..
they are not political lobbyists in D.C. :P ..
and, for them, this topic is not an idle exercise in internet rhetorics/politics.
imho.
:)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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MaxPC
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by MaxPC »

temporal1 wrote:
GaryK wrote:We have been working with a family of 5 that gets around $900.00/month in food money. The wife complained once that she was so ready to get her next month's amount because they were tired of eating chicken every night for dinner. She also once complained that they had to eat pork 3 evenings in a row because they didn't have anything else.

Last year she began working one day per week for a family in our church who run a bakery/coffee shoppe, working about 4 hours per week. Her monthly take home pay averaged less than $150.00. When she went to reapply for her food benefits she discovered they were going to cut the amount by $200.00.

Meanwhile, the family in our church she worked for has been struggling to make ends meet with 9 in the family and for a time were doing without meat in their diet.

Looking at all this it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is in serious need of reform and I'm happy to see that the conversation is taking place.
Great real-life example.
to repeat, some years ago, we accepted food stamps for a few weeks.
no where near $900/mo! (2 children)
never in my life, before, or since, did we have such a generous food budget! i still remember the shocked feeling of food shopping without concern of cost. it was an other-worldly feeling.
honestly, the way things are for me now, i read this, fighting tears. not that i need a lot of food!!
i’m doing fine. it would be luxurious to be forced to eat chicken or pork daily, while simply waiting for “better” to come in a few days. :-|

for those who care, U.S. founders were “hep” to political corruption, manipulating lawmakers.
instructions (to those freely inheriting what they structured) warned to hold “representatives” accountable! - they knew full-well, lack of accountability in humans/human constructs leads to no good.

there is no “once+done.” we are lazy fools, really-really want everything to be “once+done.”
nothing in scriptures suggests this temporal world is about “once+done.”

i agree, regular maintenance is a necessity. there is room for improvement.
when the barn roof needs fixing: it does not auto-repair.

in this thread, members like mike and appleman have special insights.
they own businesses in the food industry, have first-person experience with food, vendors, gov, and customers of all description ..
they are not political lobbyists in D.C. :P ..
and, for them, this topic is not an idle exercise in internet rhetorics/politics.
imho.
:)
I couldn't have said it better, Gary and Temp.
:up:
Last edited by MaxPC on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Valerie
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:How would you answer the question, Should there be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than other food purchasers?
We already do when it comes to alcohol.

I think this is a hard question, and I am an outlier in many ways. When I student taught in inner-city Flint, I noticed that most of my student's parents bought a lot more meat than I did - I bought a single chicken most weeks and used it in several meals, but otherwise bought no meat. But I also know how to cook and eat a lot of different kinds of things, I was vegetarian for three years, and I don't eat like most people.

On balance, I don't think we should say "don't eat any meat at all, it's too expensive". Too many people feel that meat is at the heart of a healthy diet, and that's a cultural value that runs deep. But we could easily say we won't pay for sugary drinks, candy, or potato chips. We could give bonuses for buying vegetables and fruit. Whether or not this is a good answer, I think these are important questions to discuss.
You make me wonder if "Nutrition" should be a required class in high-school- even a solid year of it. After listening to a Dr. last night teach about the poison that sugar is to us- as well as refined carbohydrates (and he believes meat/eggs are essential and if you DO chose to be a vegetarian, you will need supplements) I realize we are destroying our own bodies unknowingly- it really does take some openess to learning but there will always be plenty of folks who say they will eat what they want if it kills them. I remind them, it may not 'kill' you, you may end up in a nursing home for a few years while someone changes you and feeds you.

At the pregnancy crisis centers, those facing unwanted pregnancies that chose to keep their babies get the opportunity to earn free items for their babies- everything a baby would need. They earn special 'dollars' by taking classes- I wish something like this could be in place for those receiving food assistance- I didn't realize how much (until this thread) people can get, wow- it seems to be a lot of money for food- so I can imagine there would be a lot of good classes to educate people on nutrition, budgetting, etc- tied in with the program- but it's government and even that would cost- but if it saves in the long run.......
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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

mike wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:A primary question that comes from this is whether there should be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than the other food purchasers? If not, then let them spend their benefits how they wish. If there is, then the question is what is the best way of controlling their food choices?
If this store is representative (and I don't know if it is), then the single biggest issue is sugary drinks which are really bad for you, and I would rather not pay for that as a taxpayer. Especially if I might have to pay for it a second time when someone gets Type 2 Diabetes or other obesity-related or sugar-related illnesses.

Gary's post brings up another issue - meat and some other things are expensive choices if you are poor, but they are deeply embedded in parts of our culture. I don't eat much meat, and I'd rather not pay someone else to eat more meat than I do, but I don't know how realistic it is to expect poor people to learn how to cook Indian and Mexican foods with rice and beans and such. Actually, the Latin American population does quite well at that, I would be surprised if their SNAP benefits were going toward as much meat as the general population.
How would you answer the question, Should there be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than other food purchasers?
Latin Americans love their meat!
when my son visited (poor) friends in Brazil, he was astonished at the fabulous food they prepared, with lots of beef. Argentina is long-known for their beef industry. honestly, the canned beef Wayne mentioned earlier, may mostly come from Argentina (my perception, while food shopping.)
Brazilian restaurant menus in the U.S. are centered on beef (my understanding.)
Livestock policy and development in Latin America
http://www.fao.org/docrep/U5700T/u5700T0a.htm
“In most countries of the world beef is considered a luxury food, but in Latin America it is a staple for the poor as well as for the rich. ... Pork and poultry each amount to 18 percent of Latin America's meat consumption, while lamb, mutton and goat consumption is low in most countries.”
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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mike
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by mike »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:How would you answer the question, Should there be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than other food purchasers?
We already do when it comes to alcohol.

I think this is a hard question, and I am an outlier in many ways. When I student taught in inner-city Flint, I noticed that most of my student's parents bought a lot more meat than I did - I bought a single chicken most weeks and used it in several meals, but otherwise bought no meat. But I also know how to cook and eat a lot of different kinds of things, I was vegetarian for three years, and I don't eat like most people.

On balance, I don't think we should say "don't eat any meat at all, it's too expensive". Too many people feel that meat is at the heart of a healthy diet, and that's a cultural value that runs deep. But we could easily say we won't pay for sugary drinks, candy, or potato chips. We could give bonuses for buying vegetables and fruit. Whether or not this is a good answer, I think these are important questions to discuss.
Some of the problem with restricting food purchases is with implementation and auditing/verification. The WIC program shows that it is possible, but it's unhandy for retailers. I don't accept WIC checks because it hasn't been worth the hassle. We have accepted EBT for over 27 years and have never gotten a single audit. Truly enforcing new category restrictions such as no soda, candy, or potato chips would require additional bureaucracy. Which has been alluded to in this discussion as something much to be avoided. :)
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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:The thread title has “Trump” in it, the people opposed are the typical anti-Trump wing, the people in favour are the typical pro-right-wing.

Come on Boot. We can all do better than this.
i wouldn’t use as strong language. but.
in my mind, the only way this debate could not (also, not entirely) represent political partisan-ing .. would be if a similar debate/discussion had occured over the school lunch program changes in prior years.
i do not recall a mention on this forum, but, there were plenty of complaints aired in the world.

if this measure had been proposed by obama? - swoon - genius! :lol:

however.
that does not mean this topic is doomed. i don’t believe it is.
it takes time for people to recognized they may have been mistaken .. longer to openly admit it.

DanZ had an early thread that comes to mind.
Peacemaking after the Election / Nov 2016
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:Some of the problem with restricting food purchases is with implementation and auditing/verification. The WIC program shows that it is possible, but it's unhandy for retailers. I don't accept WIC checks because it hasn't been worth the hassle. We have accepted EBT for over 27 years and have never gotten a single audit. Truly enforcing new category restrictions such as no soda, candy, or potato chips would require additional bureaucracy. Which has been alluded to in this discussion as something much to be avoided. :)
Sigh. I wish easy answers always worked.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

Valerie wrote:You make me wonder if "Nutrition" should be a required class in high-school- even a solid year of it. After listening to a Dr. last night teach about the poison that sugar is to us- as well as refined carbohydrates (and he believes meat/eggs are essential and if you DO chose to be a vegetarian, you will need supplements) I realize we are destroying our own bodies unknowingly- it really does take some openess to learning but there will always be plenty of folks who say they will eat what they want if it kills them. I remind them, it may not 'kill' you, you may end up in a nursing home for a few years while someone changes you and feeds you.
To be effective, I suspect you would have to have a hands-on class where people actually cook and eat together, learning what they can cook quickly that tastes good. Many people are daunted by cooking at all, and many more have no idea what to do with beans and grains and fresh vegetables. And many people are not naturally adventurous.

That's actually something that churches could offer.
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:How would you answer the question, Should there be any expectation that SNAP beneficiaries make different food choices than other food purchasers?
We already do when it comes to alcohol.
The trick is to sell your food stamps (or get cash with your card) and buy your alcohol or cigarettes with cash.
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