i closely agree with what you’re saying, with some differences (that seem important to me.)RZehr:There's no question in my mind if Obama would have suggested sending food packets, most people against them now would be for them, and most for them now would be against them.temporal1 wrote: .. if this measure had been proposed by obama? - swoon - genius!
a particulary unhealthy turn has been taken since voters chose a law-school educated community organizer as POTUS. this man deeply-deeply believes in political partisanship, to an extent (many of us) have never before witnessed. he made that clear in office, now, without any restraints of perceived restrictions of that office, he is going willy-nilly for partisan politics, particularly focusing on instructing the younger folks coming up.
i have never known of a retired POTUS, and, a losing POTUS candidate, to overtly take leadership positions for the purpose of unseating a sitting president. that’s a big, eye-popping change.
compare that with the dependably respectful way W treated obama - for 8 years and since, it’s like day+night.
you might recall, W left on bad terms. if he had been bitter and angry, it would have been understandable. he did not choose that path. in my memory, no other retired POTUS has taken that destructive path. the goal is destruction. is there any other word for it? at least, they are not lying about their intent. so, no need of speculation.
so, about citizen grumblers. sure.
that has always happened, i see no change on the cyberspace horizon!
but, in my understanding, there is a whole different kettle of fish when a party’s highest leadership and ultra-wealthy supporters, including mainstream news+entertainment media are all reciting the one chant.
as well, i see many conservative citizen grumblers as being more respectful of the system of government. unhappy, but, waiting for terms to end, to vote in new reps. liberals seem obsessed with impeachment, assassination, nothing is too awful to suggest - again, to UNSEAT the sitting president. they lack respect of law, have no patience for waiting it out. unfortunately, their leaders are not leading them to respect rule of law. just the opposite.
leaders have different responsibilities. greater accountability.
when W showed respect and grace toward obama, i was impressed. that was the right thing to do.
i was not a W fan. he made bad mistakes. but, after he left office, he did the right thing.
so, on one level, i wholeheartedly agree with you.
on another level, i can’t dismiss the 2 sides as being completely of the same coin.
strangest of all (for me) is how frequently President Trump is accused of being a divider.
he’s definitely a response to a significant divider.
but, between the two, i imagine Trump will actually be remembered as much more of a diplomat than obama was. diplomacy was not obama’s goal. i think of obama as a community DIS-organizer.
he’s not finished. he’s a young man, he has plans. God willing, he may have years remaining to continue what he began in office.
regarding the Harvest Boxes, this is not about initiating a new costly program; it’s about making the existing one work better at a better cost to taxpayers. there does not seem to be much disagreement about the fact there is need for improvement.RZehr:
When I look at the "teams" discussing, I see this as 100% partisan political debate. How does the government taking more control from individuals become acceptable to Republicans?
guaranteed. unless+until it works well. if so, the grumbling will end.RZher:
And I can just hear the angry caterwauling about individual rights the Republicans would perform if Obama tried this. And I'm certain the Democrats would be excitedly caterwauling about details like fresh healthy foods.
the obamas pushed an unpopular school lunch program. it’s still unpopular. i’m not sure of where it stands now. but, there was no WWIII in Congress over it. i don’t recall it was discussed on forum. accepted by libs, no big argument from conservatives.
my granddaughter takes her lunch, she doesn’t like the food at her public school.
i understand the kitchen and staff are top-notch.
the existing gov system has room for improvement. people like mike have to deal with gov demands. their input means a lot (to me.) they see it, they live it!RZehr:
I'm not impressed with the governments ability to get the best prices on the food boxes, nor the governments ability to efficiently manage the logistics. Its hard to beat the efficiency of electronically filling a card with money and just having the people do the legwork.
While I am skeptical of all the dietary "restrictions" now days, with a card the people can buy what they need. For the government to try to honor these restrictions, that would add additional complications.
do you believe the current program is “multi-millionaire vendor skimming”-free??!RZeher:
Also, I don't have a high level of trust that another program won't be susceptible to graft, bribes, kickbacks etc. My expectation is that the graft in a large federal program will equal the amount that is currently being lost/misused/sold at the individual level.
At least now when someone sells their card at the 50% exchange rate to some friend for cash, it is probably being used better than some multi millionaire vendor skimming millions for himself.
i’m afraid, this may be an example of that partisanship you claim not to have.
i have zero doubt, the junk food industry will do everything possible to squash this entire idea.
as well, any who profit from the present system, like Wayne’s neighborhood grocer.
they will put up a big fight to protect their way of life.
it’s not hard to tell who the winners+losers will be. they will fight to protect themselves.
agreed.RZehr:
The thing for me to remember is that this is a fallen world, and many people are in the control of sin. So all these social programs are "fixes" that are necessary because we humans are not operating as God originally designed.
agreed.RZehr:
And the more people live according to Gods plan, the less these programs are needed.
But the core is sin. Laziness. Sinful addictions. Broken homes. Consequences of sin, theirs or someone elses.
God knows every one.RZehr:
I'm curious what percentage of food stamp recipients are nuclear families with no divorce?
How many single people (in this country) are on welfare who have been living a faithful Christian life and because of that need food stamps?
good points. for some, regarding logistics, those like mike would have important experience to contribute. their input is important! they are left with the nuts+bolts IRL responsibility of dealing with both government regs and store customers.RZehr:
I'm for a food assistance program.
I also think a lot of people abuse it and there would be ways to improve it.
I'd like to see all prebottled beverages disallowed, and candy, baked goods.
I'd also like if there was a better way to prompt people to provide for themselves without taking such a big hit. I don't like the idea that someone can be on assistance and be penalized greatly for earning income.
Seems like the current formula could be tweaked.
I also think that the definition for able bodied should be broadened, and no able bodied person should be able to just live on assistance.
from what i read, lots of people receiving benefits are employed, i’m not sure how that works, but, i believe former restrictions have been eased over time.
i believe allowances are now made for age, health, disability.
it’s not so much of a “one size fits all” approach, as it may have been, early on.
hope that helps.