Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Josh »

Perhaps private charity could rise to they level if it (a) didn’t have to compete with free cash from the government, and (b) private citizens had more resources to spend on charity since the government wasn’t taking it from them in the first place.

You’ll have to pick a side, Boot. Either the government does charity better than private citizens do, or not. You seem to be pretty against the food boxes because “government is wasteful and can’t do things well”, yet you still want government somehow distributing food?
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MaxPC
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by MaxPC »

RZehr wrote:I’ve not read anything about the proposal to send boxes of food, except what is on this thread. My statement about Democrats and fresh food was my attempt at imagining how the Democrats would find some way to spin this concept to their fans if this was an Obama idea.
Amen and amen. :clap:

Re contracts, there's a lot of yelling from anti-Trump people saying that there's favoritism and boondoggling in this idea. Yet the program has only been proposed, no contracts have been signed. It's not even a reality and the political rivals are screaming trying to submarine the idea. Frankly, I think anyone who voted for Hillary is going to be yelling foul about this program because her party won't be getting the credit. Politically involved people spend hours coming up with charts and propaganda to fight their rivals. Hours that an authentic Christian could use to get real food to those that need it now: no contracts, no political propaganda. That's the way of politics and the way of the secular and sinful culture we live in: it's nothing more than a Punch and Judy puppet show. As Christians, I think we can do better both at staying away from political propaganda, and in meeting the needs of the poor through our local congregations and churches.
Last edited by MaxPC on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

I'll split off the first part of this into a separate topic here: http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 535#p27535
Josh wrote:You’ll have to pick a side, Boot. Either the government does charity better than private citizens do, or not. You seem to be pretty against the food boxes because “government is wasteful and can’t do things well”, yet you still want government somehow distributing food?
No, I don't want government distributing food, but I sometimes do want government to pay for food when people cannot afford it. So I like the idea of having the government pay for food boxes like this, but I would rather let private companies provide the boxes because I think they have much better logistics for distributing groceries than the government does. And I don't want sweetheart deals, that invites fraud. So I would prefer to let Amazon, Aldi, Walmart, etc. provide boxes, let the government specify nutritional requirements for the boxes, let customers choose food that meets these requirements, and let the government pay for the boxes according to a sliding income scale.

In general, I really don't like letting the government own "the means of production", that's Marxism. But I think there are times that the government does need to step in to help the poor. When it does so, I think it's important to think about dependency, efficiency, fraud, etc.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MaxPC
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by MaxPC »

We don't have to depend on government at all for helping the poor. We can get off the computer and get busy starting a food pantry through the cooperation of local churches. We can use those precious hours distributing the food now instead of spending hours digging up propaganda charts and creating noise for political purposes.
We can do this now.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:We don't have to depend on government at all for helping the poor. We can get off the computer and get busy starting a food pantry through the cooperation of local churches. We can use those precious hours distributing the food now instead of spending hours digging up propaganda charts and creating noise for political purposes.
We can do this now.
Please let me know when you've got the problem covered. I don't really think it has to be the government, I just don't want to abolish what the poor are depending on until there's something else in place. So far, the work I am doing with refugees and the money I am giving to private charities just isn't enough, and there's not much more I know how to do.

Food pantries are certainly part of what we need, and I do support them.

I'd be perfectly happy to see the Catholic Church or the Trump Administration get the credit. But I think this thread is really about whether a proposal would improve a government program, not whether government programs are needed at all. And we're mostly discussing various ways that might work better or worse. If it gets better, the Trump Administration gets the credit, and that would be a good outcome for the poor. If it doesn't get done this term, perhaps another administration will do this and they will get the credit, regardless of their party.
Yet the program has only been proposed, no contracts have been signed.
Well yes, that's the time that people in a democracy discuss a proposal like this and think about advantages and disadvantages of doing it various ways. It almost certainly won't be done in precisely the form that has currently been proposed. But I can only quote from what has been proposed to get a rough idea of what they are thinking of.
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appleman2006
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by appleman2006 »

I have a good friend and work colleague that used to manage a very large food bank that was largely funded by the government. The abuses that he has described that go on in that industry (yes it has become an industry) would make your hair curl and would make social conservatives out of all of you were you to hear them.
The abuses you hear about are not exaggerated in the least and as he explained the need for them is vastly exaggerated for political reasons. So much so that he could not continue conscientiously in that line of work. And he leans politically left or at least he used to.
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by Bootstrap »

So Appleman, how does that inform your thinking about the various proposals that have been made in this thread? Assuming that the goal is not to eliminate SNAP, which approach do you think would be most effective, and why?
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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

Page 1:
Wayne in Maine wrote:
mike wrote:An interesting twist proposed on the SNAP program in Trump's proposed budget. A portion of SNAP benefits would be direct delivery of a parcel of staple food products. It would be a novel way to exert a degree of control over the food choices of SNAP beneficiaries. I'm surprised they didn't think of this before - Obama brought us the "Obama phones" and now Trump will bring us the "Trump food parcels."

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/trump- ... id/842874/

I'm curious what others think. Personally I think the food would be misused, sold, or wasted to some extent, just like SNAP funds are already. But I think it could be a great idea even so.
I think it's a great idea. I expect people who currently abuse the current cash/ebt programs would not bother with these parcels. I doubt there would be much of a cash market for it.

My family received "government food" on a couple occasions when my father's union was on protracted strikes. We adapted our diet - I had never had lentils before but there must have been a huge surplus because we got lots of them. The canned beef was a real treat (makes a good meat pie), and my mother found 50 ways to prepare the "canned meat" (a spam like substance).
i have not heard more about this proposed program in mike’s OP ..
but, today, i read of an Illinois proposal for school lunches that seems logical. :)

Illinois bill could withhold income taxes if students owe lunch money
http://foxillinois.com/news/local/illin ... 05-05-2018
.. .. If SB 2428 were to pass, it stated that when the debt reaches $500, would allow the school district to request the Illinois Comptroller to withhold the parents' income tax returns so it could pay off the debt.
"So, if parents start seeing 'Oh this is something that's going to affect me and not just affect my child,' maybe that will motivate the parents more to put money into their children's accounts," Student Faith Haley said.
If the district has made reasonable efforts to try and collect the debt that money will be given back to the school districts to shore up their food funds.
"To think that we'd be required to allow a household to go $500. It’d be tough on any district," Martel said.
The bill, if passed, would also make sure schools don't publicly identify or stigmatize a student who cannot pay for a lunch or who owes money for lunches.

The bill passed the Senate with a vote of 41-9-1 and will now head to the Illinois House of Representatives for consideration.
it’s hard to imagine running up a debt of $500 for school lunches ..

i believe the idea is to not deny lunch or shame students at school, but, to go to parents to pay their bills. adults-to-adults. i like that idea. :idea:

gov schools are funded with everyone’s combined tax dollars, it’s logical to look at taxes to recover shortfalls.

[heaven knows, when obamacare “came up short,” that cost was passed right along to individuals (like me) there was no escape, assessed taxes were “recovered” through bank auto-pay for obamacare shortages directly through our Federal tax returns. 3 years out, i’m finally paid-in-full on that debacle.]

this proposal is different, the lunches have been provided and eaten, parents have not paid;
it seems, this is a generous offer to resolve that debt. without bothering children over it.
hopefully, many parents would choose to keep accounts paid, to avoid the hassle with state income taxes.

this is outside free lunches provided for low income, etc.

i do not like the idea of added bookkeeping, etc., but, face it. this is a CHRONIC problem, evidently, there is a lot of abuse. children+schools are held hostage by parents. if something practical+effective can be done ..

i would prefer it begin as an experiment, with accountability and end dates, before made permanent.

i’m wondering if others have any experience with similar, or thoughts-questions? :)
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with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

Reminded of this thread:

Image

And,

Image

These have been questions building up over decades in the U.S., but, “something” seems to have happened, presently, there are lots of observations of thousands of hopeful immigrants arriving from distances at the U.S. southern border, clean, well-clothed, well-fed, with expensive tech gadgets (and legal counsel?) - i suppose those are the ones in the groups carrying brief cases? :?

:idea: Lawyers instead of firearms?

They may not have been told how homeless legal U.S. citizens live in squalor on U.S. streets.
It’s possible “the journey” may be the high spot of their overall experience.

i honestly do not know who-what is behind (any) of this. not domestic problems, this thread’s topic, or immigration problems. neither do i have any idea what should come of it.

No answers here. This post is about questions.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: Trump Budget Swaps Food Stamps for '100 Percent American' Food

Post by temporal1 »

2018: Canada :-|
appleman2006 wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:06 pm I have a good friend and work colleague that used to manage a very large food bank that was largely funded by the government.

The abuses that he has described that go on in that industry (yes it has become an industry)
would make your hair curl and would make social conservatives out of all of you were you to hear them.

The abuses you hear about are not exaggerated in the least and as he explained the need for them is vastly exaggerated
:arrow: for political reasons.

So much so that he could not continue conscientiously in that line of work.
And he leans politically left or at least he used to.

2021: Chicago :shock:

“1M Illinois schoolchildren to receive loaded debit cards for monthly food assistance through expanded P-EBT program”
“Every CPS student qualifies to get $450 this month”
https://abc7chicago.com/free-lunch-prog ... /10383890/

“Every” student means every student. No qualifying beyond enrollment in Chicago Public Schools.
Instructions are for the students/children to keep their cards: more $$ is forthcoming. The cards will be reloaded.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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