Madison and Partisanship

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Bootstrap
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Madison and Partisanship

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James Madison was one of the most important architects of the American Constitution. He saw partisanship as one of the biggest dangers to freedom. Here is the introduction to Federalist 10, where he discusses this:
AMONG the numerous advantages promised by a well constructed Union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate, as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice. He will not fail, therefore, to set a due value on any plan which, without violating the principles to which he is attached, provides a proper cure for it. The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into the public councils, have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished; as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which the adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations.
That's what worries me about partisanship.

Madison wanted to create a system that would allow fair government even with flawed human beings.
But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
That's a balance that Western democracy, by and large, has gotten right. And that is a balance that allows Christians to live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness, which is good.
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
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Josh
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Boot, maybe partisanship exists because a large number of people really do want these things or else have aligned themselves with other people who want these things:

1. Ability of Christians to educate their own children outlawed or curtailed; mandatory indoctrination about things like homosexuality and trans sexuality

2. Forced acceptance of sexual deviance like the above

3. A state involved in wars all over the globe that cannot be questioned because it’s for “national security”

4. Unchecked growth of big business at the expense of labour; unchecked free trade to the lowest common denominator for wage and envrionmental standards; unchecked growth of wealth and executive compensation for the top 1% and 0.1%

5. “Freedom” to pursue vice in all manners of pornography, prostitution, recreational drug use, drunkenness, sex outside of marriage with reckless disregard for unwanted pregnancy, abortion on demand, and no regulation or government oversight or restriction on those things for those who profit from them

These aren’t problems “rule of law” can fix, and cultural shifts take generations - often with brutal times of judgment in the forms of wars, pestilence, and famine. The answer to these things is individuals following Jesus.
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Dan Z
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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I think this is an important point Josh, and the up side of partisanship.

People gathering together around noble ideas is the way positive change happens. It's what ended slavery and segregation. It is what originally enshrined religious freedom into our constitution. It reminds me of the Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Dan Z wrote:I think this is an important point Josh, and the up side of partisanship.

People gathering together around noble ideas is the way positive change happens. It's what ended slavery and segregation. It is what originally enshrined religious freedom into our constitution. It reminds me of the Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
Should we want to “change the world”? The prince of this world is leading it to death and decay in his battle against the Lord. As ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom, we are here to win souls for our King, but we aren’t going to “change the world”.

Mead’s legacy is not a proud one. Her legacy of promoting rampant immorality has made the world a much worse place, and even more in opposition to our Creator’s plan for men.
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Josh wrote:
Dan Z wrote:I think this is an important point Josh, and the up side of partisanship.

People gathering together around noble ideas is the way positive change happens. It's what ended slavery and segregation. It is what originally enshrined religious freedom into our constitution. It reminds me of the Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
Should we want to “change the world”? The prince of this world is leading it to death and decay in his battle against the Lord. As ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom, we are here to win souls for our King, but we aren’t going to “change the world”.

Mead’s legacy is not a proud one. Her legacy of promoting rampant immorality has made the world a much worse place, and even more in opposition to our Creator’s plan for men.
Um...you know I was agreeing with you in that post, right? ;)

Seriously...Josh, it looks like we see some foundational things differently concerning the the call of the Christian, and God's end game. Would you mind if we would start a thread (not in the politics section :) ) to discuss the different worldviews we seem to hold?
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Sure, and I wasn’t necessary disagreeing with you.

I do disagree with Margaret Mead and many others in the progressive movement.
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Josh wrote:Sure, and I wasn’t necessary disagreeing with you.

I do disagree with Margaret Mead and many others in the progressive movement.
No problem - your comment will help launch what I think will be an interesting theological thread.

Don't trip over Meade on my account - I was just latching on to a good quote (not promoting an ideology) - one I would apply foremost to Christ and his disciples BTW. :D
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Re: Madison and Partisanship

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Josh wrote:Boot, maybe partisanship exists because a large number of people really do want these things or else have aligned themselves with other people who want these things:
I want most of these things too. But I don't want a government that can impose some of them, Anabaptists have suffered badly under rulers who thought they were running the Kingdom of God.

And I appreciate Madison's realism here:
But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
We need government precisely because we humans are not angels. But if we set up a government, the government is not run by angels either, so who keeps an eye on our government? That's why nobody can be above the law.
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