Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

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Bootstrap
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

Back to the original post in this thread.

Trey Gowdy is one of the authors of the Nunes Memo that Trump said was going to be a smoking gun that would vindicate him. He says that the memo has no impact on the Russian probe, and lists at least three things that he believes need to be investigated: (1) the meeting at Trump Tower between Trump campaign staff (Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, Donald Trump Jr.) and Russian lobbyists close to Putin (Natalia Veselnitskaya, Rinat Akhmetshin - also suspected of being a spy), (2) the meeting in London where George Papadopoulous met with the Australian ambassador and bragged that the Russians had dirt on Clinton, and (3) issues related to the obstruction of justice.

Trey Gowdy is the guy Devin Nunes trusted to do the research for the memo, and clearly a conservative Republican. He didn't think it was the "smoking gun" that Trump tweeted about. The whole "accountability of leftists" meme just doesn't work here - Bob Mueller and Rod Rosenstein were both appointed by the Trump Administration, Jim Comey was a life-long Republican, the FBI is overwhelmingly conservative (like most law enforcement and defense agencies). They are all calling for the investigation to continue, saying that the president is not above the rule of law. The memo clearly says that the Papadopoulos information was what triggered the original FBI counterintelligence investigation in July 2016, that's not dependent on the Steele Dossier. It is also quite clear that the warrant on Carter Page was sought after he left the Trump campaign.
Trey Gowdy wrote:REP. GOWDY: I actually don't think it has any impact on the Russia probe for this reason --

MARGARET BRENNAN: The memo has no impact on the Russia probe?

REP. GOWDY: No-- not to me, it doesn't -- and I was pretty integrally involved in the drafting of it. There is a Russia investigation without a dossier. So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there's going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by ken_sylvania »

So what's the big deal with this memo, anyway? Of course, assuming we can believe what it says. If I recall correctly, about a week ago or so you were telling us that (1) Devin Nunes and Adam Schiff were the only members of the House Intelligence committee who had seen the underlying classified information, and that (2) the FBI says the memo is misleading and that we should trust the FBI's assessment is accurate. Now that the memo has been released I don't see the same degree of skepticism in your posts about it.
Is this really something that is worth our while to discuss? Is it really going to further the kingdom of heaven for us to do so?
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

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ken_sylvania wrote:So what's the big deal with this memo, anyway? Of course, assuming we can believe what it says. If I recall correctly, about a week ago or so you were telling us that (1) Devin Nunes and Adam Schiff were the only members of the House Intelligence committee who had seen the underlying classified information, and that (2) the FBI says the memo is misleading and that we should trust the FBI's assessment is accurate. Now that the memo has been released I don't see the same degree of skepticism in your posts about it.
It's basically this: there have been a lot of claims that the memo was going to be the "smoking gun" that proves that Trump did nothing wrong and it's all a liberal witch hunt. I don't think the memo actually says that, and neither does Trey Gowdy, who did the research for the memo.

Actually, I do think the memo is misleading. For instance, the memo never mentions that Steele is the former head of the Russian desk for MI6, the British Secret Intelligence Service, and he was very convinced that 70-90% of his dossier was accurate information. When the memo says he was desperate that Trump not get elected, it should explain why, and not use this quote out of context to imply that it was pure partisanship. There are several other issues like that, where the memo takes quotes out of context and puts words into other people's mouths. The memo never mentions that Carter Page was already off of the Trump campaign by the time this wiretap was sought. It implies that only the Steele dossier was used to get the wiretap and that the FISA court was not told about the dossier's political origins, but that's not true according to various people who have seen the materials. So I think we should be skeptical of what it says, but what it says wouldn't be a "smoking gun" even if it were entirely true.

And I think it's problematic that when the president is under investigation, he alone gets to decide what information is released to the public, over the objections of the FBI, DOJ, and much of the House Intelligence Committee, and he decides not to allow Schiff's response, even though the entire House Intelligence Committee, FBI, and DOJ said that it should be released.

But for the most part, I agree with Trey Gowdy, I think the memo is irrelevant to the Trump investigation. And I do think that we should ignore the Steele dossier until the FBI can tell us which parts of it are true.
ken_sylvania wrote:Is this really something that is worth our while to discuss? Is it really going to further the kingdom of heaven for us to do so?
I think the Kingdom of God would be perfectly fine if we all just prayed for our leaders and let the investigation proceed.
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote:
ken_sylvania wrote:So what's the big deal with this memo, anyway? Of course, assuming we can believe what it says. If I recall correctly, about a week ago or so you were telling us that (1) Devin Nunes and Adam Schiff were the only members of the House Intelligence committee who had seen the underlying classified information, and that (2) the FBI says the memo is misleading and that we should trust the FBI's assessment is accurate. Now that the memo has been released I don't see the same degree of skepticism in your posts about it.
It's basically this: there have been a lot of claims that the memo was going to be the "smoking gun" that proves that Trump did nothing wrong and it's all a liberal witch hunt. I don't think the memo actually says that, and neither does Trey Gowdy, who did the research for the memo.

Actually, I do think the memo is misleading. For instance, the memo never mentions that Steele is the former head of the Russian desk for MI6, the British Secret Intelligence Service, and he was very convinced that 70-90% of his dossier was accurate information. When the memo says he was desperate that Trump not get elected, it should explain why, and not use this quote out of context to imply that it was pure partisanship. There are several other issues like that, where the memo takes quotes out of context and puts words into other people's mouths. The memo never mentions that Carter Page was already off of the Trump campaign by the time this wiretap was sought. It implies that only the Steele dossier was used to get the wiretap and that the FISA court was not told about the dossier's political origins, but that's not true according to various people who have seen the materials. So I think we should be skeptical of what it says, but what it says wouldn't be a "smoking gun" even if it were entirely true.

And I think it's problematic that when the president is under investigation, he alone gets to decide what information is released to the public, over the objections of the FBI, DOJ, and much of the House Intelligence Committee, and he decides not to allow Schiff's response, even though the entire House Intelligence Committee, FBI, and DOJ said that it should be released.

But for the most part, I agree with Trey Gowdy, I think the memo is irrelevant to the Trump investigation. And I do think that we should ignore the Steele dossier until the FBI can tell us which parts of it are true.
ken_sylvania wrote:Is this really something that is worth our while to discuss? Is it really going to further the kingdom of heaven for us to do so?
I think the Kingdom of God would be perfectly fine if we all just prayed for our leaders and let the investigation proceed.
From what I've read the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should not be released in its current form. Where did you read that they said it should be released?
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

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GaryK wrote:From what I've read the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should not be released in its current form. Where did you read that they said it should be released?
My understanding was that the House committee submitted the memo to the FBI and DOJ before they voted (unanimously) that it be published, and the FBI and DOJ voiced no objections until Donald Trump announced that they objected to it. It's not at all clear to me whether they knew they objected to it before he said so ;->

But like so many things in this thread, it all comes down to this: the public simply does not have access to what's going on because so much of it is classified. That's why the investigation should continue to be done by people who do have access to the basic information, and the investigation should be protected.
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:From what I've read the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should not be released in its current form. Where did you read that they said it should be released?
My understanding was that the House committee submitted the memo to the FBI and DOJ before they voted (unanimously) that it be published, and the FBI and DOJ voiced no objections until Donald Trump announced that they objected to it.

But like so many things in this thread, it all comes down to this: the public simply does not have access to what's going on because so much of it is classified. That's why the investigation should continue to be done by people who do have access to the basic information, and the investigation should be protected.
Here is what you said:
Bootstrap wrote: And I think it's problematic that when the president is under investigation, he alone gets to decide what information is released to the public, over the objections of the FBI, DOJ, and much of the House Intelligence Committee, and he decides not to allow Schiff's response, even though the entire House Intelligence Committee, FBI, and DOJ said that it should be released.
You specifically stated that the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should be released. Is that a fact? I personally feel the FBI and DOJ have been quite consistent in their response to both memos. I'm assuming you felt with the FBI and DOJ objecting to the release of the Nunes memo, that Trump shouldn't release it. This paragraph sure sounds like you are advocating for the release of the Schiff memo over the objections of the FBI and DOJ. Schiff himself said that they will be reviewing the recommended redactions from DOJ and FBI which leads me to believe they did not approve of its release in its current form.

Can you see how someone could conclude by the way this paragraph is written that your claim to be non-partisan and objective in this matter may be questionable?
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:From what I've read the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should not be released in its current form. Where did you read that they said it should be released?
My understanding was that the House committee submitted the memo to the FBI and DOJ before they voted (unanimously) that it be published, and the FBI and DOJ voiced no objections until Donald Trump announced that they objected to it. It's not at all clear to me whether they knew they objected to it before he said so ;->

But like so many things in this thread, it all comes down to this: the public simply does not have access to what's going on because so much of it is classified. That's why the investigation should continue to be done by people who do have access to the basic information, and the investigation should be protected.
Maybe the problem here is that so much is classified that has nothing to do with “national security”.
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:And I think it's problematic that when the president is under investigation, he alone gets to decide what information is released to the public, over the objections of the FBI, DOJ, and much of the House Intelligence Committee, and he decides not to allow Schiff's response, even though the entire House Intelligence Committee, FBI, and DOJ said that it should be released.
You specifically stated that the FBI and DOJ said the Schiff memo should be released. Is that a fact? I personally feel the FBI and DOJ have been quite consistent in their response to both memos. I'm assuming you felt with the FBI and DOJ objecting to the release of the Nunes memo, that Trump shouldn't release it. This paragraph sure sounds like you are advocating for the release of the Schiff memo over the objections of the FBI and DOJ. Schiff himself said that they will be reviewing the recommended redactions from DOJ and FBI which leads me to believe they did not approve of its release in its current form.
First off, I misspoke when I said "should release the memo", I should have said that they reviewed the memo and did not object publicly in any way and I have not read that they objected privately before the President announced that they had objections. But the President isn't the person who should be in control of that, the FBI and DOJ should speak for themselves when the President is under investigation.

The FBI and DOJ never approved of the release of the Nunes memo, even with the redactions the FBI issued a statement on their website saying they "have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy". I haven't seen them say anything like that about the Schiff memo. Here we have a president who is under investigation releasing a report that the FBI says is fundamentally inaccurate over their objections, with an introduction by the president's own lawyer.

I don't think dueling memos and trial by journalism is the right way to do an investigation regardless. The investigators need to be people who can look at and openly discuss all of the relevant information. And the process cannot be controlled by the person who is being investigated. I really don't see that as a partisan stance. I don't think that depends on who the current president is.
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Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

ken_sylvania wrote:Is this really something that is worth our while to discuss? Is it really going to further the kingdom of heaven for us to do so?
I really do think the thread has outlived its usefulness. Especially since my main point is that there are things that need to be investigated and we can't do that here on a public forum.

I'll drop out now.
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