Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14441
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

Trey Gowdy was one of the main people who drafted the Nunes Memo, and according to Devin Nunes, only one person was allowed to see the actual documents that the memo describes, and that was Trey Gowdy.

Trey Gowdy says that this memo does not invalidate the Mueller investigation:
Trey Gowdy wrote:As I have said repeatedly, I also remain 100 percent confident in Special Counsel Robert Mueller. The contents of this memo do not - in any way - discredit his investigation.
He does believe that the memo addresses important concerns with the FISA process, which provides judicial and congressional oversight for wiretapping done by intelligence agencies, but he also expresses confidence in the FBI and DOJ:
Trey Gowdy wrote:While this memo raises serious concerns with the FISA process, I have been and remain confident in the overwhelming majority of the men and women serving at the FBI and DOJ.
Gowdy was interviewed in Face the Nation. Here's how that interview started:
MARGARET BRENNAN: Saturday, President Trump tweeted that the memo "totally vindicated Trump" in the Russia probe. We sat down earlier with South Carolina Congressman Trey Gowdy, a key House Intelligence investigator and asked him if he thought the president had been vindicated.

REP. GOWDY: I actually don't think it has any impact on the Russia probe for this reason --

MARGARET BRENNAN: The memo has no impact on the Russia probe?

REP. GOWDY: No-- not to me, it doesn't -- and I was pretty integrally involved in the drafting of it. There is a Russia investigation without a dossier. So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there's going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.
The Nunes Memo is available online. Most of it involves a request for wiretapping Carter Page made in October 2016.

On the last page, it clearly indicates that the Papadopoulos information was what triggered the original FBI counterintelligence investigation in July 2016, well before that.

Note that according to Devin Nunes, only Gowdy had actually read the FISA materials, which Nunes himself had not read.
He explained that the committee set up an agreement with the Justice Department that would allow just one person to review the documents.

Nunes said he thought Gowdy would be the best choice because of his background as a federal prosecutor, and that Gowdy then shared his notes and observations with the rest of the members.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14441
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

Bottom line: This memo doesn't look like "a smoking gun" that invalidates the Russia investigation. In fact, Trey Gowdy, one of the authors of the memo, actually gave a list of specific things that still need to be looked at in the Russia investigation. A reminder to wait for a memo to come out and give people time to analyze it before coming to conclusions. See the Christian News Consumer's Handbook.

The memo is mostly about the reasons given for wiretapping Carter Page, who has been under surveillance since at least 2013. If Carter Page's 4th Amendment privacy rights were violated, then putting his name on the front page of every newspaper probably isn't the best way to protect his privacy.

If there is a question about the reasons given for surveillance, they have to be answered by someone who can actually look at the documents given to the FISA court. Was it really just the Steele dossier, especially if they had been collecting evidence on him since 2013? If information from the Steele dossier was used, was it confirmed first, and how? Was the judge told that the materials might have partisan bias? What additional information was used? If this is the only information they gave the judge, why did the Trump Administration keep asking the FISA court to extend surveillance?

These are things we cannot judge without access to highly classified material, and there are people who have seen this material who say the memo is not accurate. I don't know who is right - that's why we have the FISA court. This can't be done via Twitter and partisan media, especially when the President alone has the authority to decide which information should be made available to the public.

So if there's a problem here, it should be taken to the FISA court, where the evidence can be heard.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Dan Z
Posts: 2648
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Dan Z »

I'm generally hearing four responses to this memo:
  • 1) Those (mostly liberals) who have already prejudged Trump as guilty of collusion (or whatever it takes to get him out of office) will see the Nunes memo as a nakedly partisan tactic aimed at undercutting Muller and his credibility, and dismiss it outright.

    2) Those (mostly conservatives) whose support for the President is unwavering, and believe in a deep-state conspiracy (with FBI and Muller collusion) aimed at delegitimizing the President, have prejudged the president as a victim of a power-driven witch hunt, which the Nunes memo simply confirms. They welcome the memo as an act of transparency.

    3) Those (including independents and moderates on both sides of the isle) who have relative confidence in the justice system (including the FBI and the Muller investigation) and are waiting until Muller & co. produce their findings. While this group is glad for a bit more information about the FBI tactics from the Republicans, they see the Nunes memo as a partisan effort and only part of the story, and they would like to see the Democrat's rebuttal as well to balance things off. They are unlikely to pass final verdict until Muller presents his findings.

    4) Those of all stripes for whom this whole thing is background noise.
I'd count myself in group #3.
0 x
joshuabgood
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:23 pm
Affiliation: BMA

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by joshuabgood »

I read the memo and didn't think it was that much of a "smoking gun" re "deep state."

Having said that...it doesn't make the FBI look good either. Which is why they wanted to quash it. Better for them, if they would have just said, go ahead and release it.
0 x
joshuabgood
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:23 pm
Affiliation: BMA

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by joshuabgood »

joshuabgood wrote:I read the memo and didn't think it was that much of a "smoking gun" re "deep state."

Having said that...it doesn't make the FBI look good either. Which is why they wanted to quash it. Better for them, if they would have just said, go ahead and release it.
Having said that, there seems to also be some obvious collusion between the Democrats and the so-called origin of the "dossier"
0 x
RZehr
Posts: 7026
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:42 am
Affiliation: Cons. Mennonite

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by RZehr »

Dan Z wrote: I'd count myself in group #2.
Wow, I’d not guessed that. Congratulations.
I think you’ve done a good job at discussing politics in a pretty even manner in spite of your belief/bias/position/whatever it’s called.
0 x
User avatar
Dan Z
Posts: 2648
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Dan Z »

RZehr wrote:
Dan Z wrote: I'd count myself in group #2.
Wow, I’d not guessed that. Congratulations.
I think you’ve done a good job at discussing politics in a pretty even manner in spite of your belief/bias/position/whatever it’s called.
Oops - I meant group three. :oops: Corrected above.
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23823
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Josh »

Dan Z, I like this list.

Now what I feel is fruitful is to try to understand the perspectives and ways of thinking of someone who is a different number than your own. Instead of getting mired in specifics, it’s good to understand why someone else comes to #2 when I myself might be, say, a #4.
0 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14441
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

As far as I can tell, Carter Page was no longer with the Trump campaign by the time the FBI sought this warrant. Is there any disagreement on that? I'm trying to understand why the Carter Page warrant would be seen as evidence they were spying on a campaign that he was not working for.
joshuabgood wrote:Having said that, there seems to also be some obvious collusion between the Democrats and the so-called origin of the "dossier"
Don't forget that the dossier started with Republican opposition research, something the memo does not mention.
In this case, the request for opposition research on Donald Trump came from one of his Republican opponents in the primary campaign. The research firm then hired one of its sub-contractors who it used regularly on all things Russian: a retired western European former counter-intelligence official, with a long history of dealing with the shadow world of Moscow’s spooks and siloviki (securocrats).

By the time the contractor had started his research, however, the Republican primary was over. The original client had dropped out, but the firm that had hired him had found a new, Democratic client.
It's not surprising that candidates do opposition research, what is surprising is the kind of thing they think they found in this case. And remember that this is a FISA court, where the sources of intelligence are frequently drug traffickers, spies, mob bosses, and other unsavory characters. If they can accept intelligence from sources like these, they can probably accept even a Democrat or a Republican - as long as they disclose that the source may have partisan motives. Of course, you have to corroborate these things with other evidence to show probable cause. If there's reason to believe they didn't do that, someone should take this to the FISA court and get a ruling.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14441
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Trey Gowdy: Memo does not invalidate Mueller Investigation

Post by Bootstrap »

Dan Z wrote:I'd count myself in group #3.
Me too.

It's the best alternative to having the #1 and #2 groups come at each other with torches and pitchforks.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Post Reply