"Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

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Dan Z
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"Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Dan Z »

The idea of "elites" came up quite a bit in our Trump Poll Discussion. Here is a thread to discuss "elites" and their perspectives.
Josh wrote:He does continue to be very unpopular with the intellectual elite and the ultra-wealthy.
Josh wrote:He offends the sensibilities of those with an elite mindset, and elites exist amongst Anabaptists too.
Peter G wrote:A position's validity is not determined by the identity of those who hold it.
Josh wrote:Sure, but amongst people who aren’t in the upper echelons of society, Trump and his positions are a lot more “valid”.
Bootstrap wrote:Class warfare, anyone?

"I resent people like you" is a bad argument no matter who you are saying it to. Not just a bad logical argument, it's the kind of argument that divides us, and people don't think clearly when their resentment is stoked up. And it's one of Trump's main arguments: those people I want you to hate, let me tell you how much they look down on you, but I'm the one who loves you, so let's resent them together, I will be your voice. Hostile division is an essential part of his message, if you take his tweets and many of his speeches and rewrite them without this, there's not much left.
Bootstrap wrote:Trump, of course, is an elite who inherited substantial wealth, which he loves to display conspicuously, and brags about going to the best colleges and being in the upper echelons of society, the only person I know of who has a solid gold toilet and an apartment in New York decorated to look like a French king's palace. Would he have been elected if he couldn't say that he was in the upper echelons of society? And I worry that what he has done so far helps people like him much more than people who voted for him.
Hillperson wrote:I think what Josh means about elites having a problem with Trump is just that.... Most people except the press and those who are part of the elite just can not admit that his policies have been good for America.
Josh wrote:What’s the definition of “immoral or coarse”?

Man’s definition, the elite’s definition, or the working class’s definition... or the Bible’s?
So...who are these elites ?

What makes them elite? What defines them as elite?

Why don't they like Trump?

Are there conservative elites as well as liberal elites?

Are their opinions valid? Why or why not?

Who are the elites within Conservative Anabaptism?
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Well, are we talking about intellectual elites? Political? Cultural?
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Bootstrap »

In politics, it is often used to mean "those people I want you to hate", and it's used very vaguely. But the emotion is clear.

In the dictionary, here's one clear definition:
  1. You can refer to the most powerful, rich, or talented people within a particular group, place, or society as the elite.

    Synonyms: aristocracy, best, pick, elect
    ...a government comprised mainly of the elite.
    We have a political elite in this country.
  2. adjective [ADJECTIVE noun]

    Elite people or organizations are considered to be the best of their kind.
    ...the elite troops of the President's bodyguard.
In politics, the term is usually used to stoke resentment against those who are powerful, rich, talented, or educated. I think that appeals mostly to those who are feeling stuck, like they can't get ahead. And in today's world, it is not used just for those who inherited their wealth, but also for those who earned it by hard work. It's a class warfare thing.

Both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump used this term to energize their crowds. But I don't think Bernie was talking about elite Democrats, and I don't think Donald Trump was talking about elite Republicans. The Democrats call their elite things like scientists and professors, the Republicans call their elite businessmen.

I don't think we need a term to describe the kind of people we resent. I think we should just stop resenting people. I do think many things are making it harder for people who do not have power, money, or education to get ahead in today's world. Figuring out good ways to help would be more useful than figuring out who to resent.
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hillperson
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by hillperson »

I consider the elites to be a partisan group..... I put the Bushes and the Clinton's in the elite camp....

Elites are horrified when a real American who has the talk of the common people gets in to the White House and messes up their neat little game.... :)
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Dan Z »

Hillperson - I’m interested in getting to the root of these ideas - could you elaborate a bit more on what you believe qualifies a person to be a “real American”.

Also, help us understand what you mean by “the talk of the common people” - maybe examples would help.

Oh...and what do you think horrifies the elites most?

Thanks
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by hillperson »

I’ll try :)

A real American wasn’t really what I meant but more maybe more of a blue collar type of a person from mid American. One of the deplorables H Clinton talked about. Trump although he is rich spoke those people’s language.

Trump is like a brawny bartender who just says it like it is. He doesn’t care if it comes out brassy -in fact he likes that way. There is a good portion of America that feels like he’s talking there language
Last edited by hillperson on Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by hillperson »

I think that were he’s brilliant and why he has such a following is he speaks in layman’s language.

Elite people have worked all their lives to be smooth and savvy and here comes this guy from queens that is turning their world upside down
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by PeterG »

So...Trump has brought identity politics to blue-collar Midwesterners?
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Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

hillperson wrote:I consider the elites to be a partisan group..... I put the Bushes and the Clinton's in the elite camp....

Elites are horrified when a real American who has the talk of the common people gets in to the White House and messes up their neat little game.... :)
hillperson wrote:I’ll try :)
A real American wasn’t really what I meant but more maybe more of a blue collar type of a person from mid American. One of the deplorables H Clinton talked about. Trump although he is rich spoke those people’s language.

Trump is like a brawny bartender who just says it like it is. He doesn’t care if it comes out brassy -in fact he likes that way. There is a good portion of America that feels like he’s talking there language
hillperson wrote:I think that were he’s brilliant and why he has such a following is he speaks in layman’s language.
Elite people have worked all their lives to be smooth and savvy and here comes this guy from queens that is turning their world upside down
hillperson, i agree with your points, i would take some a bit further than you did here. what do you think?

to begin, the word, “elite,” elitism, etc., is likely to ruffle feathers of those being labeled, so, responses are likely to be defensive, or worse. :) so, there is that problem.
this doesn’t mean it’s not fair or important to discuss.

the words have lots of context. it’s not just being very wealthy. it can be a state of mind, an attitude of “i’m better than you,” etc., no wealth required! i presume this thread is about what the words mean in context of today’s politics.

for those who did not previously recognize the 1 “elite” political party composed of career politicians claiming to be representing 2 parties, this was clarified in the 2016 campaign, the politicians “outing” themselves! - (i was not one who previously saw through it.) .. but, watching the Bush family, and some others, Lindsey Graham, McCain, Romney, clarified the matter. :shock:

these are now widely recognized to be part of the “establishment” party, career politicians, etc.
the 2014 Mid-Term elections reflected this new public awareness .. i.e., beyond the reach of mainstream “news,” and/or “entertainment.”

right there is a similar problem:
there is no longer any distinction between those 2 industries, “news” and “entertainment.”
the left/the establishment is 100% invested in this huge propaganda machine.
it’s vast, so, i understand their loyalty to it. that would be 100% human reasoning.
that’s their weak spot: reliance on the false god of human reasoning. :-|

you wrote, “messes up their neat little game.” o.yes.
there is nothing little about their games, i’m pretty sure you would agree (?)
over time, these games have become very very big, and, they will fight for them. whatever it takes.

in our U.S., the elected and appointed are to be public servants.
they are not to gain vast personal wealth while in office. that’s anathema to the original plan.

Trump has a big advantage (and, career politicians are well aware) .. he was a member of the DNC for most of his life. courted by politicians - not for “the peoples’” benefit, but, for what he could do for them. he had to deal with the worst of the system, he saw it all.

there are a few tapes from over the decades when he is addressing different political groups, an interview with oprah, etc. in which he is well spoken, measured, soft-spoken, thoughtful ..
Trump is no simpleton.
these are times before he was involved in politics, but, of course, in his world, he had no choice other than to deal with them.

anyone in business understands how politicians attempt to obstruct (for a fee) every proposal, every action, every project, anyone in the private sector attempts. zoning boards, taxes, regulations, etc.

so, Trump knows his opponents. inside-out.
in this position, he is able to call things as others would not, or could not.

i’m a spectator in this. lol
honestly, i did not dream he was sincerely interested in this (awful) job.
very very few will leave their great privilege to work as a public servant. i’m stunned.
there are lots of men in positions of similar wealth, the public never hears a peep from them! :shock:

as an aside, since a teen, i have thought, we will never have “the best” as POTUS.
because we treat that person so badly. “the best” will not apply. no incentive.
so. i never expect very good politicians.

regarding blue collar workers.
here are a couple of links that say a lot. i’m not sure when the first was made. i first saw it during the obama years. i just noticed the next made in summer 2016:
:arrow: Chicago Unchained / 4 min


(oops. i’ll have to look for the newer link.) :oops:
both touch me. sad state of affairs. real people hurt, lots of them, not of one description.

:arrow: 2016 / 14 minutes:


see, that’s an important part of what makes the U.S. desirable: lots of different people.

this big trend toward “political activism,” which really means, big money behind isolating groups with the goal of dividing, not uniting, is a negative trend.
sadly, obama states he intends to commit his “retirement” to more of this. it’s offered in universities, evidently, for college credit, sometimes people are paid to protest, etc. this is not healthy.

there have long been political activists, and, certainly, lobbies.
but, obama is truly personally sold on the idea this is the “most excellent way.” :(
for leaders, it’s certainly become a profitable way! - we see in sharpton, jackson, etc.
it’s a cash cow - for some.
obama’s presidential “library” is planned to be used for political activism (his words, a year or two ago.) i read the design is based on a building in North Korea. hmm.

obama could have been a great leader. most certainly wanted him to be!
we love his looks and style.
well, he’s not the first nice-looking man i’ve met that disappointed. :lol:
so. there’s that. :)

i’ve digressed all over the place. :blah:

bottom line: it will be interesting to see what unfolds.

i hope for less organized political activism.
imho, the U.S. UNorganized majority is the best we can be.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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