"Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
lesterb
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
Location: Alberta
Affiliation: Western Fellowship
Contact:

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by lesterb »

One of the characteristics that bother me most in people is arrogance. It's what I didn't like in Hilary. And its what I don't like in Trump. The GOP had several good candidates in the running originally. But they were too decent to make it. American politics has deteriorated to the point that a decent person is pushed out of the running.

I don't vote because of my convictions about the separation of church and state. But if I did feel free to vote, I would seriously consider boycotting the process to protest the state of modern "democracy".
0 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:i’ve never heard anyone say, or suggest,
“i’m an elitist, with all the fails that go with it.”
I am certainly an educated person. I'm not from a rich family, I'm not from an educated area or a rich one. There are times in my life that I have had a high income, I haven't had any income for the last year, and I don't expect to have a high income again unless I go back to the kind of work I was doing. I'm doing things I find important, but if I can't find some income I'll have to go back to normal work.

When I read posts that say "this is what elites think of us", and other posts that point to me and call me an elitist, well, no. It's not. I'm kind of authority on what I think. Some of that is the fault of this thread, the title invites people to speculate on how the "elites" you dislike think.
temporal1 wrote:somehow, it’s easier for folks to claim the “deplorables” label, laugh about it, move on, than “elitist.”
elitists have no sense of humor about themselves. :)
I have never, ever called anyone a deplorable. If there were a thread with the title "what's wrong with deplorables and how do they think", I would object to it. That's not the way I think of people. I don't look down on people. I have friends who are not that educated, I just went to the funeral of a wonderful Christian woman with an 8th-grade education whom I dearly loved, she was 96 when she died and grew up in very rural North Carolina.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:One way to be politics-free is to not post in DanZ's thread. :)
If all the people who don't like WWF just stop posting, the WWF people tend to take over.
WWF? :?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/WWF.html

boot, do you feel overwhelmed by those with whom you perceive you disagree? hmm.
i’m not sure i know any WWF people. anywhere. i don’t know what WWF stands for.

however. Trump was not elected by one subgroup.
he did get a lot of votes from folks who weren’t voicing their opinions in public.

i happened to casually hear from some local business owners they did NOT post any political signs in the 2016 election, knowing their signs would be stolen/vandalized, their businesses possibly vandalized, they weren’t sure how bad it might get - but, they voted.

i know a semi driver who said he witnessed this happening “all over.”
people, including business owners, afraid pf being punished if they outwardly supported Trump.

i get confused about who the deplorables are. :-|
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:One way to be politics-free is to not post in DanZ's thread. :)
If all the people who don't like WWF just stop posting, the WWF people tend to take over.
WWF? :?
https://www.acronymfinder.com/WWF.html
Ooops, WWWF, World Wide Wrestling Foundation.

[video][/video]
temporal1 wrote:boot, do you feel overwhelmed by those with whom you perceive you disagree? hmm.
If you asked, especially in a safe setting, I could tell you how I feel. If you want to put words in my mouth, go ahead, but please be aware that those are your words, not mine. And think about how you would feel if I did the same to you.
temporal1 wrote:i get confused about who the deplorables are. :-|
Me too.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
temporal1 wrote: i’ve never heard anyone say, or suggest,
“i’m an elitist, with all the fails that go with it.”
I am certainly an educated person. I'm not from a rich family, I'm not from an educated area or a rich one. There are times in my life that I have had a high income, I haven't had any income for the last year, and I don't expect to have a high income again unless I go back to the kind of work I was doing.

When I read posts that say "this is what elites think of us", and other posts that point to me and call me an elitist, well, no. It's not. I'm kind of authority on what I think. Some of that is the fault of this thread, the title invites people to speculate on how the "elites" you dislike think.
temporal1 wrote:somehow, it’s easier for folks to claim the “deplorables” label, laugh about it, move on, than “elitist.”
elitists have no sense of humor about themselves. :)
I have never, ever called anyone a deplorable. If there were a thread with the title "what's wrong with deplorables and how do they think", I would object to it. That's not the way I think of people. I don't look down on people. I have friends who are not that educated, I just went to the funeral of a wonderful Christian woman with an 8th-grade education whom I dearly loved, she was 96 when she died and grew up in very rural North Carolina.
i’m not sure why you took this as aimed at you.
i was thinking of myself as much as anyone.

the word, “elitist” has different meanings. today, it has a definite political use, i guess that’s the one Dan is aiming for (?) but, it will be hard to pin down, because it has different uses+contexts, all valid for what they are.

honestly, in my family, even as a child in a big poor family, i felt the pinch of this “reverse discrimination” because i innocently happened to like classical music and some opera. i did not care for “HeeHaw,” and most tv. i just didn’t. i have no explanation.

i liked to read. and, i did that “crazy” thing teachers suggested:
i carried a dictionary with my other schoolbooks. :shock:
freak.

that sort of thing has continued in my life, often to a comical degree!
i have felt people being jealous of me - when i literally “had nothing” and was fighting to survive, while they had every (material) thing, with no worry about paying the next month’s bills.

people are funny creations.

i’ve never said, “i’m an elitist.”
but, i’m pretty sure the label, or similar, has been used (against) me.
i won’t say it’s wrong. or right. that’s for others to decide.
at times, it has been ridiculously frustrating.

i just try to continue to carry on. praying for God to guide my way.
typically, i find, these uncomfortable moments eventually work themselves out.
when i’ve been misunderstood, or unfairly labeled, time generally works that out - not my verbal argument, one way or another.

i have occasionally enjoyed some touching moments of vindication, when someone has stepped forward to apologize. that doesn’t always happen. but, it’s appreciated when it does.

for Dan’s purpose in this thread, i think the present “political elites” referred to are the career politicians, both parties, who have been allowed to create their “nice little game,” as hillperson described it .. the game being to create wealth and power for themselves first+foremost.

they are detached from concepts of public servant, and representative government.
they are fighting for their “neat little game.” an understatement.
morality is not actually on their personal radar, BUT, they use moral questions to “play” on voters’ sensibilities. this is where many well-educated are tripped up.

politicians will never say, “vote to keep me in power and rich!”
instead, they throw out moral straw men to keep everyone angry and confused.

interesting reading hillperson’s posts here.
i’m gathering, we live in very different surroundings, but, our observations pretty well align.

in olden times, parents and teachers prepared children/young people to face a tough world.
to not fear being different, even being called names.
i find scriptural references to support that. Jesus certainly had to face a harsh+ugly world.
He prevails.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

lesterb wrote:One of the characteristics that bother me most in people is arrogance. It's what I didn't like in Hilary. And its what I don't like in Trump. The GOP had several good candidates in the running originally. But they were too decent to make it. American politics has deteriorated to the point that a decent person is pushed out of the running.

I don't vote because of my convictions about the separation of church and state. But if I did feel free to vote, I would seriously consider boycotting the process to protest the state of modern "democracy".
this is pretty much what i heard my parents discussing even in “Mid-Century 1900’s.” :mrgreen:
i believe they sometimes voted. i have no real idea. they often did not vote, maybe most often.
their discussions were not directed to we children.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:
temporal1 wrote:boot, do you feel overwhelmed by those with whom you perceive you disagree? hmm.
If you asked, especially in a safe setting, I could tell you how I feel. :?
If you want to put words in my mouth, go ahead, but please be aware that those are your words, not mine. And think about how you would feel if I did the same to you.
:?
you wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:One way to be politics-free is to not post in DanZ's thread. :)
If all the people who don't like WWF just stop posting, the WWF people tend to take over.
i believe my question was a fair response to your statement.
i’ll add:
1. i don’t believe well educated adults need safe spaces to communicate.
(evidently, this is a current question, even in university settings, previously expected not to be “safe,” but, places of higher learning where challenging ideas should be expected.)
2. putting words in your mouth? i asked a question, you responded by putting words in my mouth, and, by your own admission, not answering. :?
3. i don’t require a response. so, no response is ok. :D
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Bootstrap »

Temp, I really don't think I have a problem discussing things with people who disagree with me, but I really don't like discussions where people give and take offense, and especially not discussions where people are treated as though they are bad if they disagree with something like a political opinion.
temporal1 wrote:I believe well-educated adults need safe spaces to communicate.
Not what I said. The opposite, in fact, when it comes to discussing what is true. Some people are saying they are offended if they say something is true and I go and look at the facts I can find, then question what they said. They don't want to actually discuss these things, sift through the facts together, and see what is true. They are asking for the kind of "safe space" you say colleges should not have - and I agree that colleges should not have them. I don't think forums should be like that either, for the most part. If we're going to discuss facts on an open forum, let's discuss them.

Here's what I said:
If you asked, especially in a safe setting, I could tell you how I feel.
To me, discussing feelings is different from discussing facts. I don't share my feelings with everybody in every setting. To share my feelings, I need a space where I feel people really want to hear, where we will have time to explore them over time, and where people won't distort what I said and use it as an opportunity to try to put me in a bad light. I'm not convinced that this is the place.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
Posts: 16279
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote:Temp, I really don't think I have a problem discussing things with people who disagree with me, but I really don't like discussions where people give and take offense, and especially not discussions where people are treated as though they are bad if they disagree with something like a political opinion.
temporal1 wrote:I believe well-educated adults need safe spaces to communicate.
that’s not what i wrote.

to clarify, though, in my view, the words, “safe,” and “safe places,” have been politicized to the point they are useless for honest discussion.

earlier, i posted something about so much everyday language being hijacked for partisan politics. it’s now so common, it’s complicating discussions. trust is now often lost or gained by the use of these words. not a healthy trend.

i do not see an improvement on the horizon. i hope i’m mistaken.
.. To me, discussing feelings is different from discussing facts.
I don't share my feelings with everybody in every setting. To share my feelings, I need a space where I feel people really want to hear, where we will have time to explore them over time, and where people won't distort what I said and use it as an opportunity to try to put me in a bad light. I'm not convinced that this is the place.
i believe you hold facts as “the” worthy goal. i interpret much more of your responses as emotion-driven than you would care to think.
just my observation, i may be correct or not. i have no stats to defend my perception. :P

would you care to bake some chocolate chip cookies?
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: "Elites" - who are they and why do they dislike Pres. Trump?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Temp, I really don't think I have a problem discussing things with people who disagree with me, but I really don't like discussions where people give and take offense, and especially not discussions where people are treated as though they are bad if they disagree with something like a political opinion.
temporal1 wrote:I believe well-educated adults need safe spaces to communicate.
that’s not what i wrote.
Ooops, that was not intentional. I left out the word "don't" by mistake, I was typing quickly. Here's what I was trying to quote:
1. i don’t believe well educated adults need safe spaces to communicate.
Sorry about that.

And as I said, I agree with you when it comes to discussing politics or what is true at a factual level on college campuses or public forums. If we want to get at the truth, we have to put our egos aside and not worry about who is right or wrong, just see where the facts fall out.
to clarify, though, in my view, the words, “safe,” and “safe places,” have been politicized to the point they are useless for honest discussion.
I think that's a different topic. Perhaps the word "safe" is a political red flag word for you? Here it is again, without that word, it really has nothing to do with politics:

To me, discussing feelings is different from discussing facts. I don't share my feelings with everybody in every setting. To share my feelings, I need a space where I feel people really want to hear, where we will have time to explore them over time, and where people won't distort what I said and use it as an opportunity to try to put me in a bad light. I'm not convinced that this is the place.

I suspect most people are like that. I've actually shared some of my feelings here. I haven't seen people pick up on that. I usually try sharing a little bit at a time and see how people respond before sharing more.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Post Reply