Wedding Cake Case in Supreme Court

[Valerie]

Recently an older man at work always came to my register- we've had a good relationship since our store opened- mutual respect. He said a very 'foul' word about our president and the fact that our area is full of republicans and he hates it. When he called our president the foul word- I defended President Trump- his reaction "I will never speak to you again!" Truly I thought he must be kidding. However, it's been several weeks and he has never spoken to me again, and when I tried to greet him when he was close by- he totally ignored me- really?

I have people who don't want to talk to me because I disagree with Trump on many things. I have other people with whom I have had long conversations to explain how I can be a decent person and still agree with or disagree with Trump.

Mutual respect is the right approach. We should be able to disagree without demonizing others.

It would be helpful if the Trump Administration would have a speech to say that and do everything they can to model it in their own administration. That's something many presidents try to do.

It is difficult to respect the disrespectful- some of the behavior is absolutely hideous-
My previous post/experience is prime example- I said very little to defend Trump and this man's behavior and actions were totally illogical. As deeply as I was upset about some of the things passed under the Obama administration, I, nor my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord, to the best of my knowledge, never ever behaved in the manners that we are witnessing on the left- I really do not think this is equal on both sides at all Boot- no way. Take for example the Women's March last year and the vulgar displays the women were exhibiting- it was sick! Insane! There were children present and we never saw a march anything like that from Conservatives but I guess that is why they are called Conservatives- they typically are values voters and their values would not let them (nor would it occur to them!) to behave in such a manner.

Anyway, I think Robert's advice is good- for me I see the agenda and will pray it does not succeed but as Josh noted- I think it is exposing so much that people are seeing the insanity. Just not sure how much of our country is that far gone yet-

[temporal1]

It is difficult to respect the disrespectful- some of the behavior is absolutely hideous-
My previous post/experience is prime example- I said very little to defend Trump and this man's behavior and actions were totally illogical.

As deeply as I was upset about some of the things passed under the Obama administration, I, nor my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord, to the best of my knowledge, never ever behaved in the manners that we are witnessing on the left- I really do not think this is equal on both sides at all Boot- no way.

Take for example the Women's March last year and the vulgar displays the women were exhibiting- it was sick! Insane! There were children present and we never saw a march anything like that from Conservatives but I guess that is why they are called Conservatives-
they typically are values voters and their values would not let them (nor would it occur to them!) to behave in such a manner.

Anyway, I think Robert's advice is good- for me I see the agenda and will pray it does not succeed but as Josh noted- I think it is exposing so much that people are seeing the insanity.

Just not sure how much of our country is that far gone yet-

there are countless examples of differences, and, truth is, there is no debate about it in the left’s leadership, THEY are leading it, with few exceptions, scattered here+there.

as far as bill clinton, i suspect he likes+respects Trump, he probably has for years.
bill likes Trump - but, he owes hillary.
he is not able to speak candidly (not that i would want him to.) i’d prefer former presidents+wives restrain themselves, show dignity to the office, and move on.

from what’s now cycling in news, it appears the SC seat is going to be a wild ride.
why wouldn’t it be? since 2016, the left and media have been ramping up destructive rhetoric every week, no let up. the pattern is crystal clear. there is no mystery, it’s openly stated.

obama appointed 2 left-leaning justices, Sotamayor and Kagan.
as an example, i was not thrilled; i prayed for them to rule wisely, and without prejudice.

there were no widespread threats of violence/civil war.
conservatives choose to follow “the system” even when unhappy, then hope+work for better election outcomes. certainly, there are bad apples who behave badly! - but they are in defiance of leadership, not following leaders. there is a huge difference there.

if george W had chosen to behave differently, it might have gone much like we’re seeing today.
leadership matters. maybe more than it should. nevertheless, there it is for all to see+hear.

for those watching things unfold, what’s happening today is no surprise.
from Canada, appleman saw right through it all. he knew what was coming.
it’s not what one wishes to see. it’s what one sees.

i could see, from what i was reading in news comments, lots of people truly believed, if Trump, or any (not hillary) candidate won, they naively trusted, “this would be it.” Dems would adjust and carry on. No. This was wrong. There was no indication present Dems would respond as others in previous elections. They are proving it everyday since.

It’s unhealthy. It’s not sustainable.
Like children throwing tantrums, there comes a moment when they realize, they can’t remember what the tantrum is about. It becomes a tantrum for the sake of a tantrum.

Career politicians should not be compared with children throwing tantrums.
It’s an insult to children, who do, by+large, grow up.

[Bootstrap]

I really do not think this is equal on both sides at all Boot- no way. Take for example the Women's March last year and the vulgar displays the women were exhibiting- it was sick! Insane! There were children present and we never saw a march anything like that from Conservatives but I guess that is why they are called Conservatives

You want a list, perhaps starting with Charlottesville and plenty of online death threats? It would be a very long list. I could give examples from the way some have responded to The Red Hen, for instance, the "Let God Burn Them" poster and various threats ...

Seriously, part of the problem is that each side acts like they are innocent victims and denounces the other. If one person does something horrible, and they can be associated with the left, the right pounces on it and insists everyone who disagrees with what they say is just like that. If they can be associated with the right, the left pounces on it and insists everyone who disagrees with what they say is just like that.

Let's just stop. Let's listen to each person's opinions and develop our own. Let's stop parroting polarizing fear and hatred.

If you are promoting ugly stereotypes of "the left" or "the right", and I can just feel the disgust you want us to have for them, you are part of the problem. Let's discuss policy, let's discuss what is right to do, but we want other people to be civil, we have to start by being civil. If you treat people like a threat that should be eliminated, they don't usually respond well.

[Josh]

Civility isn’t showing up anytime soon, and American politics won’t be turning into a polite debate society anytime soon.

The path for the Christian is to withdraw and to show a third way.

[Bootstrap]

Civility isn’t showing up anytime soon, and American politics won’t be turning into a polite debate society anytime soon.

The path for the Christian is to withdraw and to show a third way.

But if Christians make wedding cakes, these are issues that concern us. How do we live in this world with integrity when the values and legal framework are changing? When Christianity looks like a branch of right-wing American politics to so many people, how do we explain who we really are?

And it's not like Christians don't talk about these things all the time. If we do, how should we talk about them? MN is not "American politics", so how do we talk here? That's a choice we can make.

[Josh]

A lot of the participants on MN aren’t Mennonite, Anabaptist, nonresistant, part of a nonresistant Church, nor interested in becoming any of those things. It’s impossible to have a discussion or debate in good faith with such people.

[Josh]

My only concern can be for my church where I have influence and accountability. I don’t think most people look at Holdemans as a branch of right wing politics, and I’m not sure what could be done to make us look less like that.

Folks are still allowed to have opinions, and we aren’t expected to have opinions that would make the editorial board of the New York Times happy. I can’t think of any of us who are in the wedding cake business, but if I were, and were required to start emblazoning messages to support gay weddings, I would simply close my business and find another line of work to do.

[Bootstrap]

Josh, you seem to be objecting to me saying we need to be civil on MN. I don't understand your response to what I wrote. I am certainly not saying you have to mirror the opinions of the New York Times editorial board or telling you what opinions you need to have. I hope it's OK for me to have opinions too.

I do think we need to be able to discuss what's going on around us without pouring gas on the political fires that surround us.

We can choose to have discussions in good faith. That's our choice. If we don't do that, we wind up parroting the narratives of the world around us.

[Josh]

I’m saying civility isn’t possible on MN, although it sure would be nice if it were.

I am asking what you think myself and my church could do better, whilst keeping in mind we won’t be adopting a liberal-progressive platform anytime soon.

[Bootstrap]

I’m saying civility isn’t possible on MN, although it sure would be nice if it were.

I can be civil, you can, and we can encourage others to be civil. Even when we discuss things we disagree about.

We can politely object to incivility. Most forums that have really good discussion either have a moderator who stops people from being uncivil or a culture where people step in and say it's not cool to be uncivil, applying social pressure. I'd like to see more of that here.