God Bless the USA" Bibles

[temporal1]

“Introducing The Donald Trump Bible Translation” / -3min


Found in Comments:

@Dean4511 WROTE:
Biden tried to narrate a Bible, but he kept bursting into flames.

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“Introducing The Biden Bible Translation” / -3min

[Bootstrap]

In my church, we even talk about why we don't fly American flags or say the Pledge of Allegiance. This Bible seems like another example of where I don't think Christians should go. I'm surprised you put so much energy into defending this by deflection. Would you do that if we were discussing churches that fly flags and say the Pledge? Why is MAGA different in your eyes?

I'm not really aware of "MAGA churches". I am aware, however, of quite a few churches that spend a lot of time denouncing MAGA. I think this is a bad trend as it means such churches are effectively turning themselves into political advocates.

I disagree.

When we teach people not to say the Pledge of Allegiance or explain why we do not fly the American flag in our sanctuary, we are disagreeing with those who associate Christianity with national and political identities.

MAGA combines religious symbolism with nationalism and often racial identity. This thread is about combining the symbolism of the Bible with the Pledge of Allegiance and the Constitution, in King James English, and making it a symbol of a political movement. While raising apocalyptic scenarios, teaching us to feel deeply persecuted, and telling us that they can save us.

To many, many Americans this is now what Evangelical means. It is deeply at odds with what the Bible says, no matter how much they love the Bible as a symbol.

I think that's the kind of thing that Christians really should discuss.

[Josh]

To many, many Americans this is now what Evangelical means. It is deeply at odds with what the Bible says, no matter how much they love the Bible as a symbol.

I think that's the kind of thing that Christians really should discuss.

Well, some of us aren't evangelical, but also try to temper our words to not make every other word be a criticism of evangelical Christians, just like I don't spend most of my time criticising Catholics or liberal Episcopalians.

If you do identify as evangelical, it may be worth some self-introspection to try to understand why you've been OK with political involvement... right up until there was a candidate you didn't like. That's not a principled, Christian position; it's just politics.

[Bootstrap]

To many, many Americans this is now what Evangelical means. It is deeply at odds with what the Bible says, no matter how much they love the Bible as a symbol.

I think that's the kind of thing that Christians really should discuss.

Well, some of us aren't evangelical, but also try to temper our words to not make every other word be a criticism of evangelical Christians, just like I don't spend most of my time criticising Catholics or liberal Episcopalians.

If you do identify as evangelical, it may be worth some self-introspection to try to understand why you've been OK with political involvement... right up until there was a candidate you didn't like. That's not a principled, Christian position; it's just politics.

Here's the pattern: every time I turn attention to the topic, you make some claim about me, generally misrepresenting me in a way that grabs attention and distracts from the topic. Sorry, I'm not going there.

Any comments on the content of what I am saying here? I'm representing myself by what I say, that's where you can see what I actually believe. Feel free to engage with me in the things that I am saying.

In case you've forgotten, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

When we teach people not to say the Pledge of Allegiance or explain why we do not fly the American flag in our sanctuary, we are disagreeing with those who associate Christianity with national and political identities.

MAGA combines religious symbolism with nationalism and often racial identity. This thread is about combining the symbolism of the Bible with the Pledge of Allegiance and the Constitution, in King James English, and making it a symbol of a political movement. While raising apocalyptic scenarios, teaching us to feel deeply persecuted, and telling us that they can save us.

To many, many Americans this is now what Evangelical means. It is deeply at odds with what the Bible says, no matter how much they love the Bible as a symbol.

I think that's the kind of thing that Christians really should discuss.

Do you believe Christians should NOT discuss this? If so, why?

No need to respond if you don't want to. But if you do respond to me, perhaps respond to what I am actually saying? Without deflecting?

[Josh]

Sorry, but I don't buy into your "Christian nationalism" conspiracy theory, nor do I think it's somehow worse when Christians support Trump or Republicans versus Christians supporting Bob Dole, George Bush, Obama, or Democrats.

The conservative Anabaptist position is that we shouldn't be running for such offices nor voting for Commander in Chief. Your position seems to be based around specific candidates.

Ultimately, Boot, what's really odd is you tilting at windmills like decrying how evil "Christian nationalism" would be, even though you simultaneously think it's fine to be voting for President and involved in worldly politics - your position seems to be that the Christian thing to do is... support un-Christian candidates who explictly set anti-biblical policy. Correct me if I'm wrong. But that position is really baffling to me.

[Bootstrap]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. And really, to understand what I believe, you have to engage with what I am saying. That's where I tell you what I believe. When you throw out claims about me and ask me to defend myself against them instead ... that's no way for Christians to have a conversation about a topic.

The forum rules officially say we are supposed to speak for ourselves. I wish you would. Quote something I said. Agree with it or disagree with it. Give your reasons, if you want. Let me represent my own views, please. Represent your own.

[Bootstrap]

your position seems to be that the Christian thing to do is... support un-Christian candidates who explictly set anti-biblical policy.

Not at all. I don't think I say anything even remotely like that. I have never said Christians need to support any candidate.

In fact, this thread is specifically about an un-Christian candidate. And his attempt to coopt American Christianity to his own purposes. That's at the heart of this thread.

[Josh]

your position seems to be that the Christian thing to do is... support un-Christian candidates who explictly set anti-biblical policy.

Not at all. I don't think I say anything even remotely like that. I have never said Christians need to support any candidate.

In fact, this thread is specifically about an un-Christian candidate. And his attempt to coopt American Christianity to his own purposes. That's at the heart of this thread.

My suspicion is raised when there is heavy emphasis on a past candidate but zero on the actual President (who is also running for office), who also claims to be a Christian - yet I see you spilling little ink complaining about how much of an un-Christian candidate he is. Please correct me if I’ve missed anything.

[Bootstrap]

Sorry, but I don't buy into your "Christian nationalism" conspiracy theory ...

Are you saying you don't believe that these Bibles represent Christian nationalism? Or you don't see a problem with slipping the Pledge of Allegiance into a Bible and making it part of a political campaign? Of the things I have said, what exactly do you disagree with, and why?

I don't expect to change your mind on anything here, but I'd be interested in exactly what your views are about this. Is it a problem or not? Should Christians discuss things like whether we say the Pledge of Allegiance? And what that means about our loyalties? If someone puts the Pledge of Allegiance into a Bible, should we still discuss it?

What exactly are you disagreeing with me on? We don't have to agree, but I'd like to understand where the disagreement lies. Suppose Trump had nothing at all to do with this. How would you think about it?

[Josh]

Are you saying you don't believe that these Bibles represent Christian nationalism? Or you don't see a problem with slipping the Pledge of Allegiance into a Bible and making it part of a political campaign? Of the things I have said, what exactly do you disagree with, and why?

I think "Christian nationalism" is a conspiracy theory that mostly exists in the minds of left-wing people who hate Christianity.

I don't expect to change your mind on anything here, but I'd be interested in exactly what your views are about this. Is it a problem or not? Should Christians discuss things like whether we say the Pledge of Allegiance? And what that means about our loyalties? If someone puts the Pledge of Allegiance into a Bible, should we still discuss it?

Have you cracked open a KJV? It starts with gushing praise of King James. I personally don't really like that, but it's an important part of history.

The Pledge of Allegiance hasn't typically been part of Bibles. I don't buy Bibles with it in them. However, evangelicals think the Pledge of Allegiance is great. It makes sense they would want a Bible with it in there, along with all the other things evangelicals like, like commentaries.

What exactly are you disagreeing with me on? We don't have to agree, but I'd like to understand where the disagreement lies. Suppose Trump had nothing at all to do with this. How would you think about it?

I disagree with spending so much time and energy thinking Trump is the most evil influence on the world. Turn off the TV, stop loading clickbait websites, and stop thinking about presidential candidates. It really matters nil for the kingdom, and if you want anyone to listen to your message, you'd do yourself a big favour if you stopped making it about a particular candidate. Absolutely nobody who is otherwise pro-Trump and is an evangelical who thinks politics are fine is going to be influenced by someone who is anti-Trump, but is mysteriously silent about Biden or is pro-Biden.