Texas Baptist Church shooting

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Pilgrim
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Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby Pilgrim » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:48 am

Last Sunday there was a tragic shooting in Sutherland, Texas. 26 people were killed by a mentally person who killed with an semi-automatic weapon. Now many churches are considering what they might do to prevent this from happening to their church. Some are considering letting the pastor carry a weapon. Others are considering having certain laymen carry weapons. Some are considering locking all doors in the building and having a guard at the door.

What are some good solutions to the problem? Should we do nothing and allow people to be killed? Should we have camera's around the grounds to see a potential attack? Should someone be designated to call 911 if there is an attack?
What is your thoughts on solving the problem?

Ken
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MaxPC
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby MaxPC » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:08 am

Yes, we've been praying for the families. I think that looking for a solution or a way to solve the problem doesn't focus on the real issue. The real issue is that as Christians, we can and should expect martyrdom in certain societies. Look at the Christians in China, the Middle East, and elsewhere. Now that our own society has become increasingly hostile to Christianity we cannot expect to be any different from the persecuted Christians in other parts of the world. As the Apostles before us were martyred in the pagan society of their era, we can expect the same. We call it the crown of martyrdom.
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Max (aka Plain Catholic)
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby JimFoxvog » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:17 am

It doesn't seem to be a common problem. The solution is primarily to be open and fearless, remaining faithful to our call to nonviolence. That is what will draw people to God.
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RZehr
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby RZehr » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:21 am

Years ago there was men targeting Christians, and those Christians would flee. Some would be caught, and later killed.

My feeling is that if we really felt that we were in danger meeting the way we do, we would regularly change the service time and locations around. I think that we intuitively know that the actual likelihood of danger is so infinitely minuscule that we are rightly doing nothing.
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gcdonner
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby gcdonner » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:55 pm

JimFoxvog wrote:It doesn't seem to be a common problem. The solution is primarily to be open and fearless, remaining faithful to our call to nonviolence. That is what will draw people to God.

AMEN! We don't need to be a closed convent of worshippers. If we can't put our trust in God for our safety, then no matter how many howitzers we have, we won't be protected.
I believe that God allows things like this as a test of our faith and trust.
Stop going to Baptist churches, they aren't safe places to gather.

This is the response of some people, I'm sure.
I guess Jesus should have been packing, then he wouldn't have been taken captive by the Romans and crucified!
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:50 pm

RZehr wrote:Years ago there was men targeting Christians, and those Christians would flee. Some would be caught, and later killed.

My feeling is that if we really felt that we were in danger meeting the way we do, we would regularly change the service time and locations around. I think that we intuitively know that the actual likelihood of danger is so infinitely minuscule that we are rightly doing nothing.


Our predecessors met danger far worse than this.....yet continued to meet, and indeed preach.

As Dean Taylor once observed in a video called "What if..." "sometimes you die."

J.M.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby Bootstrap » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:13 pm

I agree with most of what was said here. The odds of this happening at any of our churches is miniscule, and so far, at least, law enforcement says that this was not motivated by religious persecution - it was a domestic dispute combined with mental illness and too many guns in the hands of the wrong person.

Still, it's worth knowing what the Houston police department teaches about surviving this kind of attack. They suggest trying the first strategy, then the second only if the first does not work, then the third:

  1. Run
  2. Hide
  3. Fight - this is the part we won't do

We won't fight, of course. But even for people who are packing heat, they say you should run if you can, hide if you can't run, and only fight if the first two options are not possible. They also say that in general trying to persuade a mass shooter not to do it usually just gets you shot.

Some churches would call 911, others consider that against their faith.

Being prepared to run, or hide if you can't run, can save you in other places besides church, this can happen in other public spaces. And being prepared to pray is really important too.

And yes, sometimes we die - in fact, every one of us will die sometime. Sometimes we are martyred. Let the way we live in this kind of situation be a witness to our faith.
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gcdonner
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby gcdonner » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:19 pm

Bootstrap wrote:I agree with most of what was said here. The odds of this happening at any of our churches is miniscule, and so far, at least, law enforcement says that this was not motivated by religious persecution - it was a domestic dispute combined with mental illness and too many guns in the hands of the wrong person.

Still, it's worth knowing what the Houston police department teaches about surviving this kind of attack. They suggest trying the first strategy, then the second only if the first does not work, then the third:

  1. Run
  2. Hide
  3. Fight - this is the part we won't do

We won't fight, of course. But even for people who are packing heat, they say you should run if you can, hide if you can't run, and only fight if the first two options are not possible. They also say that in general trying to persuade a mass shooter not to do it usually just gets you shot.

Some churches would call 911, others consider that against their faith.

Being prepared to run, or hide if you can't run, can save you in other places besides church, this can happen in other public spaces. And being prepared to pray is really important too.

And yes, sometimes we die - in fact, every one of us will die sometime. Sometimes we are martyred.
Let the way we live in this kind of situation be a witness to our faith.

AMEN & AMEN!
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Sudsy
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby Sudsy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:13 pm

Hard for me to think of a better place to be when I leave this world than being in a worship service with other believers worshipping our Lord. From an earthly worship service right into a heavenly one.
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Joy
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Re: Texas Baptist Church shooting

Postby Joy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:59 pm

I heard tonight that the Southern Baptist Convention is paying for all the funerals. That's one way to show love, I must say.
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