It's been several years since I had & read the book- and I think that what I may have wrongly assumed was that he was connecting being 'born again' with baptism- but that is what it seemed to me he was saying- I need to read the book again- actually, at that time, it was new to me to make the connection between "Born Again" and baptism- from where I came from in faith, becoming born again had nothing to do with your actual baptism- it wasn't until I started reading the early church writers/fathers from various parts of the east, who said being born again was your baptism- and it seemed to me when I read Bispop Beiler's book, he was connecting Born Again with one's baptism-EdselB wrote:I had wondered if you were confusing David Beiler's, Das Wahre Christianthum [True Christianity] (written 1857, first published in 1888) with a nonexistent 18th Century Amish bishop's book. Even so Beiler's book has nothing like you attribute to him. He has a chapter on baptism, but its primary purpose is to address the controversy in the Amish church surrounding the issue of stream baptism. Still he makes several statements that are relevant.Valerie wrote:
That's the book OJ! Thank you (how did you find that? You never cease to amaze me (us)-
Like the reviewer said in that link, it is really good- I recommend the book- I also remembered since this- that I had offered to send it to any former Amish (on a 'former Amish' facebook group that I was invited on) that would be interested in reading it- several asked me to send it to them so I think I cleaned out Rabers of what they had- & also sent my own copy to someone- I thought it would be beneficial to former Amish who doubted Amish knew the Gospel (that is the claim by some!) I'm anxious to see if I can get another copy now from Rabers- Have you ever been to that store OJ?
Sorry for the sidetrack- this should be in bunny trails I realize-
Back to OP if the original question is still in question-I suppose you could have been confused into thinking that Beiler’s citation of the scripture “Except a man be born of water and Spirit” endorsed the idea that the Holy Spirit was given at the time of water baptism. I think you are reading your understanding into Belier. You should note that he said water baptism follows baptism by the Spirit.Baptism is not the entry into the kingdom of God, but a sign that the old man of sin is laid aside and buried and man made a covenant with his God and Creator, to walk in a new life for the rest of his days. It also is sign that the person is willing to follow and obey the Word and example of our Lord Jesus Christ. For we do not seek salvation in water baptism but rather in the merit of Jesus Christ. [pp. 50-51]
Since Baptism of the Holy Spirit is much more important than baptism with water and the one who baptizes with holiness or in the Holy Spirit so much more noble, stronger, and mightier than the one who baptizes with water, so also is water baptism less than Spirit baptism. Since Spirit baptism is the most important and must be understood as a pouring or sprinkling, I therefore believe water baptism should be understood this way. There are only three kinds of baptism described in the Word of God, the baptism of the Spirit, water baptism and the baptism of suffering. The Spirit baptism is first, the most important, the most necessary, and no one can be a true Christian without it. [pp. 54-55]
All those under the Old Covenant who faithfully served God were blesses with the Spirit of God and were poured upon from above with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. [p. 60]
All these above mentioned were baptized with the Holy Spirit into one body, without a doubt Paul mentions: “Through the Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether we are Jews or Greeks, servants or free men; we are all made to drink through or to one Spirit.” I think that Paul does not indicate water baptism here but rather the baptism of the Spirit with which all were endowed who were faithful under the Old Covenant as well as those who served God un the New Covenant according to the direction of Jesus Christ, even though the ceremonies were different [p. 62.]
It is the duty of the True Christian to consider the three baptisms and whether they are working in his own life. All responsible adults must have the baptism of the Spirit, if they want to be comforted and hope to attain eternal salvation. In Christ’s words, “Except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Also except a man be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.” This is the most important baptism). Baptism by water follows next however, not as important even if there is a lot of uproar and dissention about it nowadays. And yet the Savior says, “The Kingdom of God does not come in an outward manner….”
The 18th century Old Mennonite bishop Christian Burkholder in his Address to Youth, explains the phrase “born of water and Spirit” by citing Eph. 5:26:Christ cleansed His church with the washing of water by the word, The words of Christ are “spirit and life.” (Jn. 6:36). Now if Christ thus cleanses his church namely, with the washing of water by the word,” then indeed we may say, we are born of the Word and Spirit. By the Word were all things made that were made.” [Conversations on Saving Faith, p. 221.]
Can you read that entire book online Edsel? What the book really taught me was at least at that time, the former Amish were probably surprised at what all he taught- at this point, most of them feel they (OO Amish) lost their foundation on Jesus Christ
How does one read the book of Acts & draw one conclusion at that? There were those in different places in Acts that had been baptized, but had not received the Holy Spirit yet-