Re: Denominationalism
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:25 pm
Matthew 5.Joy wrote:What are some fundamentals of Christianity, which without, according to Scripture, there is no spiritual life?
Matthew 5.Joy wrote:What are some fundamentals of Christianity, which without, according to Scripture, there is no spiritual life?
This is the essential question.Gene wrote:A pertinent question may be, When does ecumenicalism become syncretism?
Sounds like words from someone that grew up in a healthy church environment, that is easily accepted because of pedigree and has the opportunity of a biblical church around that they can wholeheartedly support. You are a very blessed man RZehr.RZehr wrote:If you can't even find one church out there that you can join and put your support wholeheartedly behind, then you have no authority to call for ecumenicalism, because in a small way you are simply behaving as if you are your own "denomination".
You are the smallest, most specialized, exclusive denomination around. No other group of people have it together well enough for you to join.
You are demonstrating the very inflexibility that you decry.
I didn’t grow up in a healthy church environment. Two of the churches my parents went to no longer exist. They don’t go to church at all now.Wade wrote:Sounds like words from someone that grew up in a healthy church environment, that is easily accepted because of pedigree and has the opportunity of a biblical church around that they can wholeheartedly support. You are a very blessed man RZehr.
We could use more of this.
We attend by far the most conservative church in area that stresses reading our Bible's and having a close walk with our Lord. However things like non-resistance are taught as just being self-righteous and war is acceptable because we are to obey government. Once saved we are always saved and just have to believe. When I first came to the Lord years ago at this church in instruction class my wife was taught that once you are saved you can be a serial murderer afterward and yet you will still make it to heaven. The freedom we recieve in Christ is the freedom to do whatever we want... I struggle greatly as we have left a couple times and tried doing church ourselves as a family but that also isn't very healthy. Nor is anything my individual choice.Josh wrote:I didn’t grow up in a healthy church environment. Two of the churches my parents went to no longer exist. They don’t go to church at all now.Wade wrote:Sounds like words from someone that grew up in a healthy church environment, that is easily accepted because of pedigree and has the opportunity of a biblical church around that they can wholeheartedly support. You are a very blessed man RZehr.
We could use more of this.
My pedigree isn’t so good. I’m divorced. My dad has a prior marriage. My last name isn’t one known to Anabaptists at all. None of my family is in any kind of Anabaptist church.
My reputation isn’t the best. When I first got saved a rumour started I worked for the FBI and my purpose of pretending I got saved was to investigate Mennonites for tax fraud. My nickname on construction job sites is still “FBI” to this day now.
A man started rumours I only went to church to try to meet youth girls. When they didn’t stick, another rumour started I was trying to spend time alone with the youth boys. And then after that, I stood accused of fornicating with a woman my own age who isn’t even Mennonite at all whom I met at a Bible study, because we went out for coffee a few times.
The church environment I got saved in had problems. Eventually they were so bad for me I left.
My current church I don’t always agree with everything 100%. I wholeheartedly support it anyway.
Wade, what’s your excuse?
I guess the first thing I thought of while reading your post were Mordecai's words to Esther in Esther 4, especially the last part of v14, "...and who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom (church) for such a time as this."Wade wrote:We attend by far the most conservative church in area that stresses reading our Bible's and having a close walk with our Lord. However things like non-resistance are taught as just being self-righteous and war is acceptable because we are to obey government. Once saved we are always saved and just have to believe. When I first came to the Lord years ago at this church in instruction class my wife was taught that once you are saved you can be a serial murderer afterward and yet you will still make it to heaven. The freedom we recieve in Christ is the freedom to do whatever we want... I struggle greatly as we have left a couple times and tried doing church ourselves as a family but that also isn't very healthy. Nor is anything my individual choice.Josh wrote:I didn’t grow up in a healthy church environment. Two of the churches my parents went to no longer exist. They don’t go to church at all now.Wade wrote:Sounds like words from someone that grew up in a healthy church environment, that is easily accepted because of pedigree and has the opportunity of a biblical church around that they can wholeheartedly support. You are a very blessed man RZehr.
We could use more of this.
My pedigree isn’t so good. I’m divorced. My dad has a prior marriage. My last name isn’t one known to Anabaptists at all. None of my family is in any kind of Anabaptist church.
My reputation isn’t the best. When I first got saved a rumour started I worked for the FBI and my purpose of pretending I got saved was to investigate Mennonites for tax fraud. My nickname on construction job sites is still “FBI” to this day now.
A man started rumours I only went to church to try to meet youth girls. When they didn’t stick, another rumour started I was trying to spend time alone with the youth boys. And then after that, I stood accused of fornicating with a woman my own age who isn’t even Mennonite at all whom I met at a Bible study, because we went out for coffee a few times.
The church environment I got saved in had problems. Eventually they were so bad for me I left.
My current church I don’t always agree with everything 100%. I wholeheartedly support it anyway.
Wade, what’s your excuse?
Mind you I don't think the Pastor teaches all this so directly as others do besides Pastor often teaching about the time of our salvation that can never be taken away and that as long as we have that moment we have eternal security.
We've recently stopped attending Sunday school as I couldn't take anymore the months of continually correcting and talking to our children about wrong teachings and focus. My children used to come out of Sunday school so happy and when I asked what they learned they would talk about Christ. And now they come out unhappy talking about amusement parks, vacations to Hawaii, and excuses why not to visit nursing homes because it is like murder just getting old people sick...
We do love these people and want to be a blessing and support but I can't wholeheartedly support these things and I don't have much say in doing anything else.
Please help with any advice. Anyone, please.
Although I think I can honestly say that our church life hasn't always been wonderful, and I can honestly say that I don't hold pedigree in esteem, and sometimes I wonder about how biblical we are at times, and there are decisions that I don't wholeheartedly support, I suppose you are right with your assessment of my circumstances.Wade wrote:Sounds like words from someone that grew up in a healthy church environment, that is easily accepted because of pedigree and has the opportunity of a biblical church around that they can wholeheartedly support. You are a very blessed man RZehr.RZehr wrote:If you can't even find one church out there that you can join and put your support wholeheartedly behind, then you have no authority to call for ecumenicalism, because in a small way you are simply behaving as if you are your own "denomination".
You are the smallest, most specialized, exclusive denomination around. No other group of people have it together well enough for you to join.
You are demonstrating the very inflexibility that you decry.
We could use more of this.
I think if I was in a place where there was none of our churches around, I would regularity attend a local church and support it the best I could. I believe that is better than staying at home.Wade wrote: We attend by far the most conservative church in area that stresses reading our Bible's and having a close walk with our Lord. However things like non-resistance are taught as just being self-righteous and war is acceptable because we are to obey government. Once saved we are always saved and just have to believe. When I first came to the Lord years ago at this church in instruction class my wife was taught that once you are saved you can be a serial murderer afterward and yet you will still make it to heaven. The freedom we receive in Christ is the freedom to do whatever we want... I struggle greatly as we have left a couple times and tried doing church ourselves as a family but that also isn't very healthy. Nor is anything my individual choice.
Mind you I don't think the Pastor teaches all this so directly as others do besides Pastor often teaching about the time of our salvation that can never be taken away and that as long as we have that moment we have eternal security.
We've recently stopped attending Sunday school as I couldn't take anymore the months of continually correcting and talking to our children about wrong teachings and focus. My children used to come out of Sunday school so happy and when I asked what they learned they would talk about Christ. And now they come out unhappy talking about amusement parks, vacations to Hawaii, and excuses why not to visit nursing homes because it is like murder just getting old people sick...
We do love these people and want to be a blessing and support but I can't wholeheartedly support these things and I don't have much say in doing anything else.
Please help with any advice. Anyone, please.
I would just echo the above words. I am currently struggling to support to the extend I want to, but I would still repeat what I told my son at a time they had gone through a period of struggle in finding a church home "We can put up with quite a bit in order to be part of a fellowship like we do have." We are truly blessed to never have experienced things like Josh and Wade have in their journey.RZehr wrote: Although I think I can honestly say that our church life hasn't always been wonderful, and I can honestly say that I don't hold pedigree in esteem, and sometimes I wonder about how biblical we are at times, and there are decisions that I don't wholeheartedly support, I suppose you are right with your assessment of my circumstances.
I do love and appreciate and support our church and what we are trying to promote and believe. And I am tremendously blessed beyond belief!