Denominationalism

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KingdomBuilder
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Denominationalism

Post by KingdomBuilder »

This thread was inspired by the "One True Church and related topics" thread that's been going on.

I'm curious, what is your individual opinion on denominations within Christianity?
Many say that denominations are divisive works of the flesh, and that they are contrary to God's true desires for the Church. Others are more fond of denominations and view them as necessary.
Others really do not care.

I know this conversation has been had many times before, and many might view it as futile. After all, what is our opinion going to change? From the looks of it, denominations will be around forever.
I don't view it as futile, though. I think vision is an important part of faith- the desire to look past imperfect situations to a better, brighter, more Spirit-shaped reality.

So, what is your ideal reality, based on Scriptural principles, pertaining to denominationalism or lack thereof?
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MaxPC
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by MaxPC »

Please bear with me as I try to explain my perspective.

In Catholic World we have different religious orders and congregations. Each of those express their faith according to their charism.
-Franciscans are into nature, animals, plants all while they preach the Gospel and worship the Trinity.
-Contemplative monasteries spend time in prayer while doing work to support the monastic community. They even offer spiritual counseling. Their main evangelical effort is prayer and worship.
-Active religious orders work in hospitals, teaching, missionaries among the poor, etc.

While all of these religious orders and congregations may express their discipleship differently, they are all still Catholic and believe in the Trinity, Jesus as Savior, the Bible, etc. They each may express that discipleship differently according to the charism (personality, spirit) of their group.

In my view, I see the variety of fellowships and denominations as reflecting that same kind of human diversity in personality and charism. They believe in God, Jesus, the Trinity, the Bible: but they may express that belief in a diversity of ways.
YMMV :D
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Bootstrap
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by Bootstrap »

Realistically, denominations exist.

We all need to encourage ourselves and others to focus on the core of the gospel. That's not a "least common denominator" - who would claim that they and their church are completely living up to what Jesus taught and did? And the more we do that, the more unity we will achieve.

There's no point in trying to build unity on the basis of denominations and wineskins. I suspect it is wiser to see ourselves as members of one body. Of course, some denominations have teachings that seem wrong to me, out of keeping with what Jesus said and taught. And some congregations or denominations can be lukewarm, hypocritical, or pharisaical.

But our job is really to proclaim Jesus and the Gospel of the Kingdom to everyone, in every part of the Kingdom and to those outside it. Our job is to be the hands and feet of Jesus, showing his love to those who need it. And if we spend too much of our time and energy focusing on what we don't like about other denominations, we take our eyes off of what really matters. If we start proclaiming our own denomination or ourselves instead of proclaiming Jesus and the Kingdom of God, we've gone even further off course.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Max and Boot, you both describe a similar idea of focusing on common ground. I agree with this. If we feel that we absolutely cannot relate to those __________ people because of their doctrine, perhaps it's time to humbly get back to the basics.

Denominations are here to stay, and I can see that. Still, I can't help but think of the alternatives... that's just me.

I'd much rather see denominational identities scrapped altogether. Of course some would be more influenced by certain characters and lineages of church history than others, but that's fine. I'd prefer us to size-down our faith-identity and to get to a heavy congregational-focus. If each congregation can take for itself the gospels and apply them with true zeal, the rest will take care of itself. Sure, some will fail, but let their failure and fruit be what distinguishes the "them" from the "us"- not their title.
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Valerie
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by Valerie »

If it is not "unity" then it is "disunity"
It is sectarianism.
It is outside of God's will for the Church.
It is man made, not led by the Holy Spirit.
It brings confusion to the Church and it's witness to the world.
It conveys the Holy Spirit guides differently to interpretation- which the Holy Spirit cannot be the author of leading different interpretations.

Before I ever heard of Anabaptists or Orthodox- I always thought reverse the n & m in the word Denominationalism (or Denomination) and you have DeMoNination- why do I see this connection as being demonic in nature? Because the adversary loves to divide God's people-

I think what Max pointed out within his own Catholic faith in the 'orders' are simply different applications and ministries- yet holding to the same doctrinal understandings/interpretations yet applying them to individuals 'within' the church to lead them in specific ministries where God can use them- this is not denominationalism but members using their gifts in various ways so that is not the same as sectarianism which is totally unscriptural.

Yes it is outside of God's perfect will. By the times Jesus started His ministry there were 'sects' within Judaism as well- that was also outside of God's perfect will. We are the Church, Israel, today- and in much worse shape regarding sectarianism than Israel ever was.

It is what it is- He has allowed it.
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Josh
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by Josh »

In my view, I see the variety of fellowships and denominations as reflecting that same kind of human diversity in personality and charism. They believe in God, Jesus, the Trinity, the Bible: but they may express that belief in a diversity of ways.
Except Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, and quite a few others don’t believe in the Trinity the way Catholics do, but in my opinion these people are still Christian believers.
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Josh
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by Josh »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I'd much rather see denominational identities scrapped altogether. Of course some would be more influenced by certain characters and lineages of church history than others, but that's fine. I'd prefer us to size-down our faith-identity and to get to a heavy congregational-focus. If each congregation can take for itself the gospels and apply them with true zeal, the rest will take care of itself. Sure, some will fail, but let their failure and fruit be what distinguishes the "them" from the "us"- not their title.
This is exactly what John Holdeman wanted with his “church of God” doctrine, and likewise what the Restorationists wanted with their “churches of Christ” doctrine.

At the end of the day, denominations do exist. If I’m away from home, I want to fellowship with other Christian believers of like precious faith. That means I need to know a few basics about what they believe. If they are not interested in following Jesus’ words or the bulk of the New Testament, I do not wish to try to seek close fellowship with them.

Ultimately, the legacy of anti-denominational movements like Restorationism, Holdemanism, or the Apostolic Christian Church is a lot of sectarianism and one true church doctrine. It’s worth talking about why that goal leads us to this destination.
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Sudsy
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by Sudsy »

KingdomBuilder wrote: So, what is your ideal reality, based on Scriptural principles, pertaining to denominationalism or lack thereof?
I believe denominations are against the unity Jesus prayed for and what Paul tried to put down arising in the Corinthian church. Imo, a way used by satan to divide the true church who God alone knows precisely those who are His.

In our location a growing number of the more evangelical churches are dropping their denominational labelling even though their statements of faith have not changed. These label themselves as a 'family' or 'community' churches and hide whether they are Pentecostal, Mennonite or something else. Our MB church, for instance, has gone from being called 'Mennonite Brethren' to 'Meadow Brook Fellowship' to Meadow Brook Church' (Meadow Brook being a nearby city sub division). Our congregation is much more ethnically diverse than it was 15 years ago when called 'Mennonite Brethren'. No change to the statement of faith in what we believe but now reaching many unchurched.

I think the scriptures support the idea of each local congregation following Jesus the best way they can in how they believe the scriptures and that all of us accept that we all still 'see through a glass darkly' and learn to love one another the best we can in this mess of churchianity that has evolved. Find a church that is, for instance, 80% of what you personally believe and serve the Lord where you can in that church.

As I have, and I read of others here on this forum, that are going to churches that hold certain beliefs that they don't, they have learned how to participate in these churches. But some folks are so intent on everyone being of the very same beliefs and practises that they completely ignore the unchurched. Satan has tricked them into thinking forced unity is what God primarily desires and brings God glory.

I think if Paul was talking to us today, as he did with the Corinthians, he would say to drop all these labels and even the major labels of being Protestant, Anabaptist, Roman Catholic, etc and just be sure we are first and foremost known to be a person who loves the Lord. I doubt these denominational distinctions will have any place in God's Kingdom when it fully comes. I so look forward to that day.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Valerie wrote:If it is not "unity" then it is "disunity"
It is sectarianism.
It is outside of God's will for the Church.
It is man made, not led by the Holy Spirit.
It brings confusion to the Church and it's witness to the world.
It conveys the Holy Spirit guides differently to interpretation- which the Holy Spirit cannot be the author of leading different interpretations
Part of me wants to agree here, but passages like Romans 14 keep from doing so. I do, Scripturally, see that it can be okay for different peoples of the faith to disagree on certain things. However, disagreement shouldn't be synonymous with disunity.
I do, therefore, believe that the Spirit can, to an extent, require/ lead people differently than others, for whatever reason.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Denominationalism

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Josh wrote:This is exactly what John Holdeman wanted with his “church of God” doctrine, and likewise what the Restorationists wanted with their “churches of Christ” doctrine.
Yes. Overall I'd be inclined to agree to an extent.
At the end of the day, denominations do exist. If I’m away from home, I want to fellowship with other Christian believers of like precious faith. That means I need to know a few basics about what they believe. If they are not interested in following Jesus’ words or the bulk of the New Testament, I do not wish to try to seek close fellowship with them.
That's respectable and fair. From your postings and our talks, I gather that you travel a good bit, so I can see why this matters for you especially.
Ultimately, the legacy of anti-denominational movements like Restorationism, Holdemanism, or the Apostolic Christian Church is a lot of sectarianism and one true church doctrine. It’s worth talking about why that goal leads us to this destination.
Right, and this is a problem.
I think that overall, anti-denominationalism becomes easily synonymous with consolidating the church into one, completely united, and homogeneous Church. Again, not sure this is what the Scripture or Spirit would have.
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