Denominationalism

[Sudsy]

But my personal question has more to do with how, assuming that they start out pure, can any congregation or group of congregations remain so?

Brothers and leaders who are dedicated to admonishing their brethren, proper scriptural disicipline, excommunication, and restoration of a repentant brother.

Therein lies the main difference between Anabaptism & other Christian groups (i.e. Evangelicals, Pentecostals, etc)

Are we pure because of our own righteousness, or because of the blood of Christ and His righteousness?
You see, the Corinthian Church was part of "The" Church, but far from 'pure' as Anabaptists would call pure- yet spirutal gifts were flowing in spite of that-
Also, in the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector, the tax collector was the one Jesus said was "justified"- by his own righteousness? No- or his own purity? No- he was confessing his own sinfulness, and relying on the mercy of God.
Apostle Paul called himself the 'Chief" of sinners (even though he was a Christian!) and describes this 'sin' we have to wrestle with in Romans 7

So what makes us 'pure'? What is a 'pure' Church according to these understandings above?

Perhaps this text tells us how God makes His Church a 'pure' Church - Ephesians 5:22-33

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.[a] 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
(underlined mine)
It is God who is building His church and will present it as one without spot or wrinkle. A life of submission to authority in the way of self sacrifice love as Christ gave Himself for us.

Speaking to the men, as I are one, when we obey the directive here to submit to Christ (and not necessarily to the local church rules) and to love our wives in a self sacrificial way, God will work in us to be that sanctified husband and wives will not find the word submission to be any big deal as our love and treatment of them will not have any 'lording over' characteristics. Amen ! Ladies ?

[cmbl]

So, I don't think of true purity as a destination this side of glory, but rather a process. Is the church heading toward purity? Are the people in the church part of this process? Are the people taking steps to live pure lives, and encouraging and admonishing one another?
Is it only encouraging? Does the church pretty much allow anything at all with no action ever taken against church members sinning?

And different churches attempt this purifying in different ways. Some will put up with habitual, regular sinning and say that is part of the process of growth. Some will put up with mistakes, "falling" into sin, and say to get up and keep going, that is a part of the process. Some will put out the one that has sinned and only bring them back when they believe that person has pure intentions and motives.

Are these different ways equally valid? Do they all implement the New Testament?

How is putting up with habitual, regular sinning and saying it is part of the process of growth different than pretty much allowing anything at all with no action ever taken?

[gcdonner]

So, I don't think of true purity as a destination this side of glory, but rather a process. Is the church heading toward purity? Are the people in the church part of this process? Are the people taking steps to live pure lives, and encouraging and admonishing one another?
Is it only encouraging? Does the church pretty much allow anything at all with no action ever taken against church members sinning?

And different churches attempt this purifying in different ways. Some will put up with habitual, regular sinning and say that is part of the process of growth. Some will put up with mistakes, "falling" into sin, and say to get up and keep going, that is a part of the process. Some will put out the one that has sinned and only bring them back when they believe that person has pure intentions and motives.

Are these different ways equally valid? Do they all implement the New Testament?

How is putting up with habitual, regular sinning and saying it is part of the process of growth different than pretty much allowing anything at all with no action ever taken?

The denominational standards do not necessarily reflect the holiness or lack thereof of the members. You can't judge individuals by their denomination.

2Co_5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

There are enough habitual sinners in every denomination to disqualify them as a group, but God expects us to answer as individuals.
Because I know of Mennonites who are/were adulterers, does that mean that all Mennonites are adulterers?

[KingdomBuilder]

There are enough habitual sinners in every denomination to disqualify them as a group, but God expects us to answer as individuals.
Because I know of Mennonites who are/were adulterers, does that mean that all Mennonites are adulterers?

This is what it boils down to.
The reality is that we are, as humans, all inclined to "large group" identity, judgements, actions, etc... The great reality, though, is that alone will we stand for a final, eternal judgement.

[Josh]

If it’s not worth trying to have a pure church, why bother being Anabaptist at all?

If all that matters is one’s personal relationship with God and that makes you part of some invisible, amorphous “one body”, why bother with church at all?

[KingdomBuilder]

If it’s not worth trying to have a pure church, why bother being Anabaptist at all?

If all that matters is one’s personal relationship with God and that makes you part of some invisible, amorphous “one body”, why bother with church at all?

That's not what I'm getting at.

[RZehr]

So, I don't think of true purity as a destination this side of glory, but rather a process. Is the church heading toward purity? Are the people in the church part of this process? Are the people taking steps to live pure lives, and encouraging and admonishing one another?
Is it only encouraging? Does the church pretty much allow anything at all with no action ever taken against church members sinning?

And different churches attempt this purifying in different ways. Some will put up with habitual, regular sinning and say that is part of the process of growth. Some will put up with mistakes, "falling" into sin, and say to get up and keep going, that is a part of the process. Some will put out the one that has sinned and only bring them back when they believe that person has pure intentions and motives.

Are these different ways equally valid? Do they all implement the New Testament?

How is putting up with habitual, regular sinning and saying it is part of the process of growth different than pretty much allowing anything at all with no action ever taken?

No they aren't equally valid, no they don't implement the NT. I was just saying that churches do this, I'm not saying that it is right.
I could have been clearer.

[gcdonner]

If it’s not worth trying to have a pure church, why bother being Anabaptist at all?

If all that matters is one’s personal relationship with God and that makes you part of some invisible, amorphous “one body”, why bother with church at all?

That is not my point at all, except to say that denominations are like individuals in that they all have different purposes in the body of Christ and we shouldn't condemn others because they are not "Just like us".
I think Paul warned about that "comparing yourselves among yourselves" or something to that.

They aren't as holy as we are because...

We disqualify ourselves as soon as we do that, since PRIDE is the basis of many sins.

[Josh]

I am not focused on what goes on in other churches.

I’m pretty focused on my own life, my own congregation, my own brethren. I can say with confidence we aim to be a pure church and practice proper admonishing, love, caring, and disicipline to be so.

I can’t affirm the same about congregations I’m not part of. Some are obviously full of sin.

[gcdonner]

I am not focused on what goes on in other churches.

I’m pretty focused on my own life, my own congregation, my own brethren. I can say with confidence we aim to be a pure church and practice proper admonishing, love, caring, and disicipline to be so.

I can’t affirm the same about congregations I’m not part of. Some are obviously full of sin.

you are willing to generically condemn other congregations? Don't you think that that is their aim as well? You are still comparing yourself with others, which is very unwise. If you KNOW of the sin, then it is your job (is it not?) to confront that/those brother[s] in the spirit of humility and love, personally, rather than sitting on a pole judging them.
Many people are proud of their purity which comes across as arrogance if not curtailed. Consider Luke 18:9-14

Think about it.