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KingdomBuilder wrote:Considering the timeline and some apparent similarities in doctrine, I cannot help but wonder if Restorationism impacted the advent and theology of the Church of God in Christ, Mennonite? What do you think? Maybe some of our CGCM attendees could have an input here.
I cannot help but wonder that if CGCM was more well known, could it be included in the same list as LDS, JW, SDA, CoC, and DoC? It's obviously a relatively loose tie that binds these churches together, so I wouldn't consider it too absurd.

Don't forget the "Sleeping Preacher Churches." The influence of John Kaufman and Noah Troyer came straight out of the trance preachers of the 1800's. If you compare Edgar Cayce and John Kaufman, you see a lot of similarities.

lesterb wrote:Don't forget the "Sleeping Preacher Churches." The influence of John Kaufman and Noah Troyer came straight out of the trance preachers of the 1800's. If you compare Edgar Cayce and John Kaufman, you see a lot of similarities.

I'd never heard of such before this past year.. When I first learned of these "Sleeping Preachers" I was very surprised to hear that they still exist in CA circles....

KingdomBuilder wrote:

lesterb wrote:Don't forget the "Sleeping Preacher Churches." The influence of John Kaufman and Noah Troyer came straight out of the trance preachers of the 1800's. If you compare Edgar Cayce and John Kaufman, you see a lot of similarities.

I'd never heard of such before this past year.. When I first learned of these "Sleeping Preachers" I was very surprised to hear that they still exist in CA circles....

I'm very thankful that a certain church near me no longer would be part of that.

The outside influences which brought about revival in the colonies in the Russian Empire in the middle 1800 came largely from Lutheran Pietists and German Baptists/Brethren. The "New Mennonites" that came out of this awakening created several groups, including the Kleine Gemiende, the Mennonite Brethren, Kriemer Mennonite Brethren, & the Evangelical Mennonite Brethren. This renewal among the Mennonites also brought new life to the Lutheran and Catholic colonies in the area, as well as congregations that formed out of former Russian Orthodox people. Some Jewish and Muslim peoples were also influenced toward Christ by this movement. It could well be that the strength of the Baptist church in Russia today is largely due to influences brought about by the Mennonite revivals. While the initial years brought a lot of tensions for the Old Church (Mennonites), revival eventually also came into their midst as well.

KingdomBuilder wrote:

mike wrote:Mormonism.

I'll refer to them as LDS in this thread, as it reflects the movement from which they came.

Or if I really want to add some length to a post, I may call them The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. *faints*

Incredible story. I read a lot of books on the LDS a few years ago when I had contact with some of them. I don't know if there has ever been even the slightest influence on Anabaptism, but the modern LDS empire itself is quite something.

It is truly an American religion, a completely modern product of the 1800s. There is nothing historic or ancient about it.

mike wrote: I don't know if there has ever been even the slightest influence on Anabaptism.

I wouldn't think so. Well, I'd hope not...

the modern LDS empire itself is quite something.

LDS has actually climaxed and is now declining, though they don't blurt that out. Overall, only an average of 33% of self-proclaimed members attend services. In some areas of the world, like South America, only about 10% show up for the sacraments! The number of members and the number of actual LDS is very different.

KingdomBuilder wrote:

the modern LDS empire itself is quite something.

LDS has actually climaxed and is now declining, though they don't blurt that out. Overall, only an average of 33% of self-proclaimed members attend services. In some areas of the world, like South America, only about 10% show up for the sacraments! The number of members and the number of actual LDS is very different.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

mike wrote:Interesting. I didn't know that.

The Ensign, an LDS church magazine, gives many supporting statistics on convert baptisms and the number of missionaries used.
The church will either reform somehow or the decline will continue, maybe even speed up.

KingdomBuilder wrote:

mike wrote:Interesting. I didn't know that.

The Ensign, an LDS church magazine, gives many supporting statistics on convert baptisms and the number of missionaries used.
The church will either reform somehow or the decline will continue, maybe even speed up.

The rise, growth, and persistence of the LDS has been phenomenal, but unfortunately for Mormonism, the rise of apologetics in the last couple decades coupled with several demonstrably false and/or contradictory claims from their various scriptures and authorities (literary and oral), have had a distinctive effect. Usually they are wonderful people (where have we heard that before, lol), but even beyond their gross theological errors, they are trapped in a demanding, exhausting, and guilting system. I do think we'll see more and more reform toward evangelical Christianity, but the core of Mormon theology is not ultimately reformable into Biblical Christianity, no matter how many of the same terms they may hand you... But that would be a thread in itself...

Heirbyadoption wrote:The rise, growth, and persistence of the LDS has been phenomenal, but unfortunately for Mormonism, the rise of apologetics in the last couple decades coupled with several demonstrably false and/or contradictory claims from their various scriptures and authorities (literary and oral), have had a distinctive effect. Usually they are wonderful people (where have we heard that before, lol), but even beyond their gross theological errors, they are trapped in a demanding, exhausting, and guilting system. I do think we'll see more and more reform toward evangelical Christianity, but the core of Mormon theology is not ultimately reformable into Biblical Christianity, no matter how many of the same terms they may hand you... But that would be a thread in itself...

Some of the most fascinating non-scholarly reading about the Mormon debacle in modern times is The Mormon Murders. True story. In the 1980s, Mark Hoffman, a forger used some of the suppressed aspects of Mormon history to make money, before being caught. But the Mormon church end up as red-faced as anybody because of their action to suppress what they thought were genuine but embarrassing documents concerning their history.