‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

General Christian Theology
Post Reply
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by MaxPC »

I caught this radio interview yesterday and it was food for thought.
Michael Savage on America’s Crisis of Faith: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’
Savage noted that Albert Einstein was used as an icon of supreme atheist reason by the Sixties counterculture, but Einstein himself said that “as he got older, the more that he probed the perimeters of the universe, the more he was sure there was a Creator, a grand Creator – it could not happen by accident.”
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by temporal1 »

MaxPC wrote:I caught this radio interview yesterday and it was food for thought.
Michael Savage on America’s Crisis of Faith: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’
Savage noted that Albert Einstein was used as an icon of supreme atheist reason by the Sixties counterculture, but Einstein himself said that “as he got older, the more that he probed the perimeters of the universe, the more he was sure there was a Creator, a grand Creator – it could not happen by accident.”
i’ve read similar about Einstein, and, many-many lesser-known others who changed over the course of their lifetimes.

it’s sad how so much damage can be done that lives on+on, often directly affecting human laws that carry on for decades+decades, with no mention of the later change of heart.
it’s such a strange phenonema, but it happens just like that.

my general response to discussion of atheists is, “i don’t believe in atheists.”

and, i don’t.
just those who have not yet walked far enough on their path. God is patient.
Einstein’s experience pretty much reflects my view on it.

sometimes i read postings on the Catholic Engineers page. they have FB, too.
http://catholicengineers.org/
i suppose, i’m specially affected by those who invest in advanced studies, while retaining their core faith. many describe gaining deeper faith, as their studies take them further. as if, “the more one learns, the more is found to be humble about.”

in different ways, i’m as affected by believers in most humble circumstances, prisoners, welfare mothers, everyday workers .. people more like me. :)
(thinking out loud) it must be the sense of the presence of the Holy Spirit, which, extra-human, exists+transforms, not under control of human scope.

my 1500th post. :shock:
3.77 average posts per day. hmm.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:my 1500th post. :shock:
3.77 average posts per day. hmm.
Congratulations!
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by Bootstrap »

Einstein died in 1955, the things he wrote in the 1950s are still quite clear that he did not believe in a personal God, the afterlife, prayer, etc. I don't think he was an atheist, but I don't think he was a "man of faith" either.

For instance, in a letter he wrote in 1954, Einstein wrote this:
Albert Einstein wrote:It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
In The World As I See It (1949), Einstein wrote this:
Albert Einstein wrote:I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature.
At the same time, Einstein was not an atheist, and denigrated fanatical atheism:
Albert Einstein wrote:I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal god is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.
Albert Einstein wrote:The fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'—cannot hear the music of the spheres.
And he said that he chose not to combat religion because "such a belief seems to me preferable to the lack of any transcendental outlook."

You can link to the original sources of these quotes from this Wikipedia entry.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by MaxPC »

temporal1 wrote:
MaxPC wrote:I caught this radio interview yesterday and it was food for thought.
Michael Savage on America’s Crisis of Faith: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’
Savage noted that Albert Einstein was used as an icon of supreme atheist reason by the Sixties counterculture, but Einstein himself said that “as he got older, the more that he probed the perimeters of the universe, the more he was sure there was a Creator, a grand Creator – it could not happen by accident.”
i’ve read similar about Einstein, and, many-many lesser-known others who changed over the course of their lifetimes.

it’s sad how so much damage can be done that lives on+on, often directly affecting human laws that carry on for decades+decades, with no mention of the later change of heart.
it’s such a strange phenonema, but it happens just like that.

my general response to discussion of atheists is, “i don’t believe in atheists.”

and, i don’t.
just those who have not yet walked far enough on their path. God is patient.
Einstein’s experience pretty much reflects my view on it.

sometimes i read postings on the Catholic Engineers page. they have FB, too.
http://catholicengineers.org/
i suppose, i’m specially affected by those who invest in advanced studies, while retaining their core faith. many describe gaining deeper faith, as their studies take them further. as if, “the more one learns, the more is found to be humble about.”

in different ways, i’m as affected by believers in most humble circumstances, prisoners, welfare mothers, everyday workers .. people more like me. :)
(thinking out loud) it must be the sense of the presence of the Holy Spirit, which, extra-human, exists+transforms, not under control of human scope.

my 1500th post. :shock:
3.77 average posts per day. hmm.
I agree. Michael Savage also made the point that our society is so "plugged in" that people have tuned out God. That people buy into the mainstream media misinformation instead of thinking for themselves. That they would rather spend their time arguing in forums and checking their social media instead of spending time in prayer and reading their Bible.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote:That people buy into the mainstream media misinformation instead of thinking for themselves. That they would rather spend their time arguing in forums and checking their social media instead of spending time in prayer and reading their Bible.
Sad. I take the time to provide actual quotes by Einstein in his last years of life, and you respond by making up accusations about me. For some reason you believe that I don't spend significant time in prayer and reading the Bible? For some reason, you think I get my news from social media? I don't think either of those claims are true. And I don't think either of those claims tell us what Einstein believed.

Hard to discuss any topic if it all degrades into hand waving and insults.
MaxPC wrote:I caught this radio interview yesterday and it was food for thought.
Einstein is a pretty good source if you want to know what Einstein thinks about something. Looking up what Einstein had to say is what is meant by "thinking for yourself". Michael Savage is no better than social media as a primary source on what Einstein thought, so a person who thinks for himself checks these things to see if they are true. Clearly, Einstein was no atheist, that much is true.

I'm pretty sure we would agree that God does not need Einstein's authority to back him up.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by temporal1 »

MaxPC wrote:
temporal1 wrote: .. (thinking out loud) it must be the sense of the presence of the Holy Spirit, which (being) extra-human, exists+transforms, not under control of human scope ..
I agree. Michael Savage also made the point that our society is so "plugged in" that people have tuned out God. That people buy into the mainstream media misinformation instead of thinking for themselves. That they would rather spend their time arguing in forums and checking their social media instead of spending time in prayer and reading their Bible.
i know little of Michael Savage, but his point is widely recognized in recent years. it’s discussed on this forum, and has been, over the years.

my hope is, as we-all become more comfortable with the internet, we will also become more sophisticated about its use. lots of trial+error! hopefully, these are the primitive days, better to follow.

recently, i had a short (side) chat with a young devoted atheist. he responded to my statement, “i don’t believe in atheists.” he assured me he/they exist! .. i reviewed his FB page, it appeared he was young, maybe twenties (?) .. and, evidently, enjoys pictures of himself. (lol)

i responded i accepted he believes he’s an atheist today .. but, his life story remains to be seen.
honestly, i was impressed that he didn’t simply hurl insults while exiting, but, he did not. he separated from the appearance of bravado reflected on his FB page, he was thoughtful and civil.

i won’t say he decided to accept Jesus in that moment. :)
but, i hope, he might have left with a bit more curiosity about how his own life might unfold.
the Holy Spirit determines timing and outcomes.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14438
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:i know little of Michael Savage, but his point is widely recognized in recent years. it’s discussed on this forum, and has been, over the years.
Right wing talk radio host, generally trying to stir up controversy. For instance, here's what he said about the Catholic Church and immigrants:
Michael Savage wrote:It is a pig story! It’s animal farm all over again. And also make no bones about it, it’s the greedy Catholic Church that was behind it because the people of America walked away from the molesters’ dens and they need to bring in people from the Third World who are still gullible enough to sit there and listen to the molesters…the Roman Catholic Church was behind this, the Roman Catholic Church started this a year ago. The Roman Catholic Church flooded the streets because they cannot get parishioners anymore amongst educated white people who have caught onto the racket and instead they need to import dummies to sit in the church pews. That’s the story and it is not difficult for you to understand—I’m telling you the truth. It’s all about greed. It’s greed at the top of the Catholic Church.

Make no mistake about why this is happening. This has nothing to do with compassion for Mexican workers. This has nothing to do with fairness for Mexican workers—it has to do with the greed…. That’s all there is to it. And that includes the Catholic Church pigs. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen to the show—I really don’t care anymore. I’m not going to be duped by this sanctimonious garbage that all churches are good and that the institution itself is good. Bah humbug. The institution is rotten from the top to the bottom.
I'm not convinced that Michael Savage is the person we need to teach us about how to be Christians. I don't think he is fair to the Catholic Church.

He is also on Great Britain's list of people banned from entering the country because they foster extremism or hatred.
Talk show host Michael Savage - real name Michael Weiner - is also excluded. His views on immigration, Islam, rape and autism have caused great offence in America.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: ‘God Is Not Dead, Man Is Dead to God’

Post by MaxPC »

temporal1 wrote:
MaxPC wrote:
temporal1 wrote: .. (thinking out loud) it must be the sense of the presence of the Holy Spirit, which (being) extra-human, exists+transforms, not under control of human scope ..
I agree. Michael Savage also made the point that our society is so "plugged in" that people have tuned out God. That people buy into the mainstream media misinformation instead of thinking for themselves. That they would rather spend their time arguing in forums and checking their social media instead of spending time in prayer and reading their Bible.
i know little of Michael Savage, but his point is widely recognized in recent years. it’s discussed on this forum, and has been, over the years.

my hope is, as we-all become more comfortable with the internet, we will also become more sophisticated about its use. lots of trial+error! hopefully, these are the primitive days, better to follow.

recently, i had a short (side) chat with a young devoted atheist. he responded to my statement, “i don’t believe in atheists.” he assured me he/they exist! .. i reviewed his FB page, it appeared he was young, maybe twenties (?) .. and, evidently, enjoys pictures of himself. (lol)

i responded i accepted he believes he’s an atheist today .. but, his life story remains to be seen.
honestly, i was impressed that he didn’t simply hurl insults while exiting, but, he did not. he separated from the appearance of bravado reflected on his FB page, he was thoughtful and civil.

i won’t say he decided to accept Jesus in that moment. :)
but, i hope, he might have left with a bit more curiosity about how his own life might unfold.
the Holy Spirit determines timing and outcomes.
Excellent points, T1. Yes, I've seen it discussed here on MN too, how the addiction to social media and forums interferes with personal relationships as well as our relationship with God. We'll pray for that young man's conversion to Christ. I've noticed that some young people will say something like that to see how you will react. I suspect that the fact he didn't hurl insults means he was testing your reactions and it was also a means of appearing special, unique: very common behaviors among that age group. At least he wasn't hurling insults like the extremists in both ditches.

Michael Savage did a great job of citing research that has documented a rise in antisocial behaviors among those who are glued to social media and forums all day. Not only did the person's existing personal relationships suffer (divorce, isolation, etc); these individuals have a great deal of difficulty forming new relationships because of their hostile, argumentative behaviors and paranoia. There's even been a noted rise in the suicide rate of these individuals who come from all age groups. It was an exceptionally well-done broadcast with in depth questions and answers and one that was very informative without resorting to political agendas.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Post Reply