In-Depth Bible Study

General Christian Theology
Adam
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by Adam »

Bootstrap wrote:I'd be interested in your feelings on HCSB, I find it does a pretty good job of being readable while still being accurate.
I've never read it. Actually, I get a little discouraged anytime a new English translation comes out when I know how great a need there is for languages all over the world that don't have a translation. What if we took all the money and effort that we spend in producing all these new English translations into making sure all other languages had a translation before ever making another translation into English. ESV, NKJV, and NASB are a bit different in my mind as they are basically revisions of the Tyndale-King James tradition and not new translations.
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Bootstrap
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by Bootstrap »

Adam wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:I don't much care which reading you give, but I would appreciate a footnote saying that some manuscripts give the other reading.
I agree. This is one of the reasons I have been considering reading the New King James more because it is the only translation that gives clarity and transparency on text critical issues. I am convinced that neither the Byzantine nor the Critical text represents the original autographs. I am more inclined to trust the Byzantine text, however, because it was compiled over time to those who had access to much better manuscripts than we do today, and most of the differences between the critical text and Byzantine text sprung up before AD 200 anyway. I like Maurice Robinson's work on this topic. I think he points out the big elephant in the room of the critical text camp. Nevertheless, we translate from the critical text because that is what most people are familiar with in PNG when using English or Tok Pisin Bibles. Not something worth making a big issue out of here. But knowing the various readings is helpful in exegesis as it lets you know what different people were thinking about the text and its rightful interpretation.
I agree with all of this until you get to "I am more inclined to trust the Byzantine text". But I'm also not confident that my opinion is correct, I am mostly confident that humility is called for.

What I generally do, in practice, is look at all of the readings before AD 400 on this page: https://greekcntr.org/manuscripts.htm or read the text-critical notes in my NET NA/27 diglot. And instead of asking which ending of Mark is right, I ask what each ending means. There's something striking about the ending that leaves the women baffled with what has just happened, knowing that Jesus has risen, but not knowing what to do with it:
And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.” And they went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had seized them, and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
We don't get it at first, do we? It's too much for us. What do you do with something as amazing as the resurrection? I don't know if the additional text was added on later, I suspect it may have been, but either way, we can learn something from this ending.
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MaxPC
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by MaxPC »

Adam wrote: I've never read it. Actually, I get a little discouraged anytime a new English translation comes out when I know how great a need there is for languages all over the world that don't have a translation. What if we took all the money and effort that we spend in producing all these new English translations into making sure all other languages had a translation before ever making another translation into English. ESV, NKJV, and NASB are a bit different in my mind as they are basically revisions of the Tyndale-King James tradition and not new translations.
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Adam
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by Adam »

Bootstrap wrote:[I agree with all of this until you get to "I am more inclined to trust the Byzantine text". But I'm also not confident that my opinion is correct, I am mostly confident that humility is called for.
It's not something I feel strongly about either way. Just a preference...especially since the Byzantine text tends to be smoother and have fewer problems. If that is a result of later editing, I am not necessarily opposed to that as earlier Scripture books show signs of being edited and compiled. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the inspiration. Sometimes I wonder if the biblical authors themselves made changes to their own writings as they prepared various copies. Certainly we all make minor changes to various drafts that we prepare of our own writings. It could be that a Byzantine reading and a Alexandrian reading both stem from the autograph because the original writer produced multiple copies and made minor changes with each copy. One thing I have learned is that it is not worth getting into heated debate about, and I think it is good to be aware of what the various manuscript traditions say.
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Bootstrap
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

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Adam wrote:If that is a result of later editing, I am not necessarily opposed to that as earlier Scripture books show signs of being edited and compiled. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the inspiration.
When I was growing up, you would never see a Bible with multiple endings for Mark and notes saying "Some manuscripts include this ending". I think most of us were afraid that if you did that, people would question the authority of the Bible.

That's common now. I haven't seen this used as an argument against the authority of Scripture. I think most people recognize and appreciate the honesty of this approach.
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MaxPC
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by MaxPC »

Adam wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:[I agree with all of this until you get to "I am more inclined to trust the Byzantine text". But I'm also not confident that my opinion is correct, I am mostly confident that humility is called for.
It's not something I feel strongly about either way. Just a preference...especially since the Byzantine text tends to be smoother and have fewer problems. If that is a result of later editing, I am not necessarily opposed to that as earlier Scripture books show signs of being edited and compiled. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the inspiration. Sometimes I wonder if the biblical authors themselves made changes to their own writings as they prepared various copies. Certainly we all make minor changes to various drafts that we prepare of our own writings. It could be that a Byzantine reading and a Alexandrian reading both stem from the autograph because the original writer produced multiple copies and made minor changes with each copy. One thing I have learned is that it is not worth getting into heated debate about, and I think it is good to be aware of what the various manuscript traditions say.
Absolutely re the minor changes in the copies. Whether intentional or accidental, this is a common occurrence in the old hand-copied ms. They did not have photocopiers, scanners, or faxes then. I agree with you too about the needless heated debates. They only satisfy personalities who have a negative bent for arguing constantly and disrupt the scholarly process for the sake of being the center of attention: I've seen my share of those personalities in my academic circles through the years.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
temporal1
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by temporal1 »

2017 / Page 1:
Adam wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Adam, do you want a Bible study that discusses practical and personal life applications of the Scripture? Or a study that gets into the linguistics and semantics of translations? Are you interested in one that uses the critical-historical method?
All of the above.
I am not limited to those writing from an Anabaptist perspective.

I am just curious to see how others dig down deep into the Scripture and what methods they use.

Over years, MD and MN have had threads on reading the Bible, reading the Bible in one year, etc.
This is a 2021 podcast from a Catholic site. i’m thinking of listening. i’m a bit behind.
but i think the podcasts are available to catch up. i think they’re free for use.

The Bible in a Year / Ascension Press
https://media.ascensionpress.com/catego ... leinayear/
About The Show
In the Bible in a Year podcast, starting January 1st, 2021, Fr. Mike Schmitz walks you through the entire Bible in 365 episodes, providing commentary, reflection, and prayer along the way.

Unlike any other Bible podcast, Ascension’s Bible in a Year Podcast follows a reading plan inspired by The Great Adventure Bible Timeline, a ground-breaking approach to understanding salvation history developed by renowned Catholic Bible teacher Jeff Cavins.

With this podcast, you won’t just read the Bible in a year … you’ll finally understand how all the pieces of the Bible fit together to tell an amazing story that continues in your life today!

Listen and…

Read the ENTIRE Bible;
Feel more confident about your understanding of Scripture;
Experience the transformative power of God’s Word in your daily life;
Start seeing the world through the lens of Scripture.
Each 20-25 minute episode includes:

two to three scripture readings
a reflection from Fr. Mike Schmitz
and guided prayer to help you hear God’s voice in his Word.

FAQS .. ..
This is using a Catholic Bible, of course.
i’m wondering about other online “Bible in a year” groups.
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temporal1
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by temporal1 »

Updates on Bible in a Year.
Wow what a New Year!

Bible in a Year is getting close to one million downloads, :shock: :shock:
and we aren't even through the first week!

Here are a couple updates that might be helpful for you.

- - Need the reading plan?
Click here for a link to the Reading Plan for the podcast in case you missed it or can't find it.

- - Curious where you can listen to the podcast? Lots of places! Click the links on the names below to go to that platform.

Apple Podcasts (the biggest podcast directory in the world)
Google Podcasts
Spotify
Castbox
Amazon Music
Stitcher
Our website
AND
Hallow (A Catholic prayer app). - - Try it for 30 days free by clicking on that link .. .. ..

- - The Bible in a Year podcast from Fr. Mike Schmitz and Ascension is still the #1 podcast in the NATION on Apple Podcasts! Above shows from NBC, NPR, and major secular production companies. .. .. ..
it continues ..

i listened to the first episode today.
i’m still trying to figure out how to navigate the site, find the podcasts, etc.
(there’s a lot of content on this site, much is free, but not all.)

one confusing thing is they offer a fancy Bible (“Adventure Bible”) for sale (now sold out) -
but they say another version (RSV 2nd Catholic Version) is used for the podcast readings.
i think this one:
https://www.biblio.com/book/holy-bible- ... 1373303126

https://www.ignatius.com/Ignatius-Bible ... P1126.aspx
A completely new design and typeset edition of the popular Ignatius Revised Standard Version-Catholic Edition Bible, with minor revisions to some of the archaic language used in the first edition.

This revised version is a contemporary English translation without dumbing-down the text.
This second edition of the RSV doesn't put the biblical text through a filter to make it acceptable to current tastes and prejudices, and it retains the beauty of the RSV language that has made it such a joy to read and reflect on the Word of God.
Now the only Catholic Bible in standard English is even more beautiful in word and design!

Features:
Completely re-designed and newly typeset with 9 point font size.
Improved line-spacing for comfortable reading.
The RSV, second Catholic edition is the only Bible translation that uses standard (non-feminist) English and is in conformity with the Church's translation guidelines found in the Vatican document, Liturgiam Authenticam
Nine reference maps in color: .. ..

i added underlines to things important to me. ^^ ^^

they also say other Catholic Bibles are ok, to expect some language differences, but this should not detract.

i have read the Bible over decades. never cover to cover. never read a Catholic Bible.
i might do this. i started. :)
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temporal1
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by temporal1 »

i’m not doing well. ^^^ :(

i’m conflicted. not sure how to proceed.
i find positives, i’m interested.

the presentation is throwing me off.
the principle presenter speaks so quickly, i honestly wondered if the tape had been tampered with, increasing speed, and raising the voice pitch? (but, no, he had a guest speaker whose voice+presentation sounded normal.)

also, the presenter uses “hep political talking point” references that i find annoying, esp in context of Bible study. time is dedicated to selling things, esp a certain pricey Bible, that i’m sure is very nice, but. but.

i’m just not sure i want to hear this, all this, for a year.

i admit, i’m new to podcasts. i don’t listen to radio. no tv. maybe it’s me.
i’m sad.
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Valerie
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Re: In-Depth Bible Study

Post by Valerie »

temporal1 wrote:i’m not doing well. ^^^ :(

i’m conflicted. not sure how to proceed.
i find positives, i’m interested.

the presentation is throwing me off.
the principle presenter speaks so quickly, i honestly wondered if the tape had been tampered with, increasing speed, and raising the voice pitch? (but, no, he had a guest speaker whose voice+presentation sounded normal.)

also, the presenter uses “hep political talking point” references that i find annoying, esp in context of Bible study. time is dedicated to selling things, esp a certain pricey Bible, that i’m sure is very nice, but. but.

i’m just not sure i want to hear this, all this, for a year.

i admit, i’m new to podcasts. i don’t listen to radio. no tv. maybe it’s me.
i’m sad.
Everyone is different temp, don't be sad. You are seeking to learn!
For me, the best way, is to pray before reading that God helps me. My favorite Bible from my initial studying at age 15 forward, was when I purchased the Orthodox Study Bible. It would be similar to the Catholic because it has the books in the OT that the Protestants took out- but we, having not read through those most of our Christian lives, find them to be very beneficial! I do know the Amish Anabaptist accepted those books- (if I understand right) I read an article by an Amish Bishop, giving support of them. Reading some of those books have helped us understood some things that were a mystery before.

At any rate, the Orthodox Study Bible has great footnotes explaining passages. I wouldn't let that which is difficult be a stumbling block, just prayerfully read through.
My weakness is sticking with reading through the OT- it feels too 'heavy' at times- I tend to then jump back to the New Testament.

Anyone else have a suggestion?

We are not to make interpretations of the Bible, it has already been interpreted- but we can make personal application!
Those that have gone before us already interpreted, that gave me peace. And some things are a mystery we accept by faith. If we overcomplicate the seeking, it can discourage us.
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