The Purpose of Communion

General Christian Theology
CADude
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by CADude »

gcdonner wrote:
Hats Off wrote:Are we questioning the Word?

Can we make ourselves unworthy?
You are misunderstanding the Word, which is my point exactly. We are all unworthy, our righteousnesses are as filthy rags according to the Word. If you can make yourself worthy, in the sense that you are inferring then we don't need the sacrifice of Jesus life or his resurrection. He died just because we are unworthy.
Does the sinner have no part at all in being found worthy? Repentance, forgiveness of sins and a new life in Christ is taught throughout the New Testament as the part that man plays in accepting the free gift of salvation.
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gcdonner
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by gcdonner »

A "simple" reading of the text in the KJV English leads us astray. With a little digging you will see that the term unworthy does not mean what you are inferring for yourself. We tend to forget the implications of reading without understanding.
1Co 11:27  WhereforeG5620 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall eatG2068 thisG5126 bread,G740 andG2228 drinkG4095 this cupG4221 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 unworthily,G371 shall beG2071 guiltyG1777 of theG3588 bodyG4983 andG2532 bloodG129 of theG3588 Lord.G2962 
1Co 11:28  ButG1161 let a manG444 examineG1381 himself,G1438 andG2532 soG3779 let him eatG2068 ofG1537 that bread,G740 andG2532 drinkG4095 ofG1537 that cup.G4221 
1Co 11:29  ForG1063 he that eatethG2068 andG2532 drinkethG4095 unworthily,G371 eatethG2068 andG2532 drinkethG4095 damnationG2917 to himself,G1438 notG3361 discerningG1252 theG3588 Lord'sG2962 body.G4983 
G371
ἀναξίως
anaxíōs; adv. from anáxios (G370), unworthy. Unworthily, irreverently, in an unbecoming manner (1Co_11:27, 1Co_11:29), treating the Lord's Supper as a common meal without attributing to it and its elements their proper value.
Ant.: eusebṓs (G2153), piously, reverently.
(Moffatt NT)11:27 Hence anyone who eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord carelessly, will have to answer for a sin against the body and the blood of the Lord.
(AMPC)  So then whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in a way that is unworthy [of Him] will be guilty of [profaning and sinning against] the body and blood of the Lord.
(BBE)  If, then, anyone takes the bread or the cup of the Lord in the wrong spirit, he will be responsible for the body and blood of the Lord.
(Complete Apostles' Bible)  Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord irreverently will be guilty of the body of the Lord and of the blood of the Lord.
(GNB)  It follows that if one of you eats the Lord's bread or drinks from his cup in a way that dishonors him, you are guilty of sin against the Lord's body and blood.
(GW)  Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks from the Lord's cup in an improper way will be held responsible for the Lord's body and blood.
(WEBA)  Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks the Lord’s cup in a way unworthy of the Lord will be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
What Paul is referring to is addressed in the beginning of the passage where he rebuked some of the Corinthians for coming to the communion table without regard to it's purpose and eating and drinking as though it was a common meal. They had no more regard for the participation than sitting down to lunch and eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
We are a needy people, who need forgiveness and cleansing to be acceptable in the sight of God.

You can make yourself worthy of punishment:
Heb 10:28,29 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The sin of assuming that we can make ourselves worthy of his body and blood is tantamount to that of Nadab and Abihu:
Lev 10:1  And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 
2  And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. 
3  Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.
 
Rom_3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isa_64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
So I ask the question again, "Who can make himself worthy?" The fact that we are not worthy and can do nothing to make ourselves worthy is the very reason that we need the sacrifice of Christ to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 

Purpose of communion demonstrates that we are NOT WORTHY and in need of forgiveness which has been provided to us through the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ for us and communion is to be a reminder of that fact, which too often we get reversed, thinking that we can somehow make ourselves worthy of his sacrifice.
Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast
10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 
Again I ask, which of you can make yourself worthy of the body and blood of Christ?
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gcdonner
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by gcdonner »

CADude wrote:
gcdonner wrote:
Hats Off wrote:Are we questioning the Word?

Can we make ourselves unworthy?
You are misunderstanding the Word, which is my point exactly. We are all unworthy, our righteousnesses are as filthy rags according to the Word. If you can make yourself worthy, in the sense that you are inferring then we don't need the sacrifice of Jesus life or his resurrection. He died just because we are unworthy.
Does the sinner have no part at all in being found worthy? Repentance, forgiveness of sins and a new life in Christ is taught throughout the New Testament as the part that man plays in accepting the free gift of salvation.
We have a part, but even our part is of God's grace.
Repentance is a gift:
... if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;(II Tim 2:25) 
Forgiveness of sins is what God does and a new life in Christ is what God gives us.

Even in working out our salvation, it is not what we do in and of ourselves:
Php 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 
13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure
All that we do is in response to what God is doing in us.
1Jn_4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.
We need the sacrifice of Christ for forgiveness of our sin, the Old Covenant could not do it through the works of the Law, only Christ's blood washes whiter than snow! Only Jesus makes us worthy to stand before a Holy God.
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Wade
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by Wade »

I do like your reminder but I never got the impression that people think they make themselves worthy. Each communion service I have seen in Mennonite settings I rather saw tear filled eyes and the impression that none of us are worthy. And yet how amazing that God still thinks that we are worth it!
Rather being at peace with God and man as far as we are able was a reflection of scripture and the apostles asking if it would be one of them that betrayed Him and also Christ's telling us to leave our gift before the alter and first to be reconciled with our brother.
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gcdonner
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by gcdonner »

Wade wrote:I do like your reminder but I never got the impression that people think they make themselves worthy. Each communion service I have seen in Mennonite settings I rather saw tear filled eyes and the impression that none of us are worthy. And yet how amazing that God still thinks that we are worth it!
Rather being at peace with God and man as far as we are able was a reflection of scripture and the apostles asking if it would be one of them that betrayed Him and also Christ's telling us to leave our gift before the alter and first to be reconciled with our brother.
This is the ideal for sure, but how many stories have you heard of people being denied communion by the ministry because the individual was "not worthy"? Unfortunately this happens too often, which brings me to the next part of the equation. Is it up to the elders of the church to examine it's members to determine worthiness or is it a personal matter?

What does scripture say?
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GaryK
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by GaryK »

How can you have the possibility of eating and drinking unworthily without the possibility of eating and drinking worthily? Or replace unworthily or worthily with any other word to describe what Paul is getting at and you can't have one without the other. You seem to be implying that one can't eat and drink worthily.

You say correctly "Only Jesus makes us worthy to stand before a Holy God". So if we are worthy because of Jesus and we come to the communion table having examined ourselves to make sure we are not unworthy to eat and drink why is it impossible to come to the communion table worthy to eat and drink?
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Bootstrap
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by Bootstrap »

To me, the most important thing is to read the entire passage in context, and the most words "for" and "therefore" are essential. The basic flow is this:
  1. When you come together for the Lord's Supper, there are factions among you, and you have no regard for each other - that's not the Lord's Supper, that's despising the church of God, humiliating Christians who are poor, insisting that our faction is the preferred faction.
  2. The Lord's Supper was received directly from Jesus, the new covenant in his blood, proclaiming the Lord's death (implied: together) until he comes.
  3. Therefore, if you do eat the bread or drink the cup in an unworthy manner - see (1) for Paul's description of what that looks like, it's using communion to build factions and to shut out and humiliate some Christians, having no regard for the body of Christ (his church).
Some churches have taught that "discerning the body" means believing in the doctrine of transubstantiation. That doesn't fit the context, and I am not aware of any place that this phrase is used with that meaning in Scripture. Others have taught that "discerning the body" means making sure we have communion only with those in our little faction, which seems to directly contradict the intention in this passage.

When Paul tells us to examine ourselves, he clearly is thinking of at least the things he began the passage with in (1). There was only one church in the place, this wasn't about denominations, but it clearly involved some factions preferring themselves over others. If the Lord's Supper is a sacrament that testifies to divisions in the body, then it is not the Lord's Supper. Eating the bread and drinking the cup in a worthy manner means having regard for the entire Body of Christ.

Here is the entire passage with just two words highlighted in blue.
But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by MaxPC »

GaryK wrote:How can you have the possibility of eating and drinking unworthily without the possibility of eating and drinking worthily? Or replace unworthily or worthily with any other word to describe what Paul is getting at and you can't have one without the other. You seem to be implying that one can't eat and drink worthily.

You say correctly "Only Jesus makes us worthy to stand before a Holy God". So if we are worthy because of Jesus and we come to the communion table having examined ourselves to make sure we are not unworthy to eat and drink why is it impossible to come to the communion table worthy to eat and drink?
:up:
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote:How can you have the possibility of eating and drinking unworthily without the possibility of eating and drinking worthily? Or replace unworthily or worthily with any other word to describe what Paul is getting at and you can't have one without the other. You seem to be implying that one can't eat and drink worthily.

You say correctly "Only Jesus makes us worthy to stand before a Holy God". So if we are worthy because of Jesus and we come to the communion table having examined ourselves to make sure we are not unworthy to eat and drink why is it impossible to come to the communion table worthy to eat and drink?
I don't think he is implying that. I think he is saying that (1) Paul tells individuals to examine themselves, he doesn't encourage leaders to decide for them, and (2) Paul's main concern in this passage is that brethren are being excluded from fellowship in communion because of factions and selfishness, which is still a danger today. Even for leaders.

One of the reasons the Body of Christ is broken is that we have turned the sacrament of unity into a sacrament of division. As did the Corinthians. The Body of Christ is broken because we keep choosing to break it.
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gcdonner
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Re: The Purpose of Communion

Post by gcdonner »

GaryK wrote:How can you have the possibility of eating and drinking unworthily without the possibility of eating and drinking worthily? Or replace unworthily or worthily with any other word to describe what Paul is getting at and you can't have one without the other. You seem to be implying that one can't eat and drink worthily.

You say correctly "Only Jesus makes us worthy to stand before a Holy God". So if we are worthy because of Jesus and we come to the communion table having examined ourselves to make sure we are not unworthy to eat and drink why is it impossible to come to the communion table worthy to eat and drink?
You missed the point of my previous posts I guess. If you stop using the term "unworthily" and insert "irreverently, in a common manner, etc" then it means something totally different than what you are suggesting. The whole point of communion is that we are not worthy, we need forgiveness and healing. We come not for affirmation of our goodness, but in need of His GRACE. The purpose for approaching in humility, reverence and being of a contrite spirit, is to acknowledge our need and recognize that only HE can supply that need and that it was done on the cross.

We are cleansed, healed and forgiven when we come in reverence. If we come in arrogance or don't consider the implications of HIS sacrifice, and receive the elements with no thought, then we are the ones who will continue to be weakly, sick, and die before our appointed time (according to Paul).
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