Fasting prior to Baptism

General Christian Theology
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Sudsy
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Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Sudsy »

A thread that drifted off the 'Can any water be used for baptism ?' thread. The reference looked at -
The Didache, or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (an early Christian text not part of the New Testament) says of baptism (chapter 7):

On the subject of baptism, baptise thus: after having taught all that precedes, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. If for some reason you do not have living water, baptize in other water; and if you are not able to in cold water, in warm water. If you do not have enough of one or the other, pour out water three times on the head, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Before the baptism, let the baptizer, the baptized and others who can, observe first a fast; as for the baptized, you must enforce a fast beforehand for one or two days.
Underlining mine for discussing why fasting became associated with water baptism when there was no reference to this occuring in the NT.

Valerie gave this reply -
Sudsy, I believe if I am not mistaken the reason for fasting is for the grace of the Holy Spirit, because it is at one's baptism that they are prayed over/anointed to receive the Holy Spirit and fasting has something to do with receiving more grace of the Holy Spirit- that would be the purpose from what I understand, your 'emptying yourself' so that you can be filled.

Remember the reason the disciples were unable to cast out some demons one time- and Jesus said "this kind cannot come out except by prayer & fasting" so the fasting is purposeful to empty & receive power from on High.
I found this interesting about emptying oneself physically to receive more of the Holy Spirit's power. And there certainly is a physical inside cleansing that goes on through fasting also.

However I wonder why when we are told in Eph. 5:8 to 'Stop getting drunk with wine, which leads to wild living, but keep on being filled with the Spirit.' (ISV) it did not say anything about fasting to make room for more 'grace of the Holy Spirit'. And the other references in Acts to water baptism did not refer to this need to fast prior to water baptism.

Are there any other references in the NT to fasting to 'empty oneself' to obtain exceptional power from on high ? And does the prayer & fasting text mentioned apply to us today to give us that same power of the apostles to work miracles ? It would seem this fasting practise is no longer followed in Chrisianity prior to being baptised, is this correct ? Any thoughts on this ?
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Valerie
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy wrote:A thread that drifted off the 'Can any water be used for baptism ?' thread. The reference looked at -
The Didache, or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (an early Christian text not part of the New Testament) says of baptism (chapter 7):

On the subject of baptism, baptise thus: after having taught all that precedes, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. If for some reason you do not have living water, baptize in other water; and if you are not able to in cold water, in warm water. If you do not have enough of one or the other, pour out water three times on the head, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Before the baptism, let the baptizer, the baptized and others who can, observe first a fast; as for the baptized, you must enforce a fast beforehand for one or two days.
Underlining mine for discussing why fasting became associated with water baptism when there was no reference to this occuring in the NT.

Valerie gave this reply -
Sudsy, I believe if I am not mistaken the reason for fasting is for the grace of the Holy Spirit, because it is at one's baptism that they are prayed over/anointed to receive the Holy Spirit and fasting has something to do with receiving more grace of the Holy Spirit- that would be the purpose from what I understand, your 'emptying yourself' so that you can be filled.

Remember the reason the disciples were unable to cast out some demons one time- and Jesus said "this kind cannot come out except by prayer & fasting" so the fasting is purposeful to empty & receive power from on High.
I found this interesting about emptying oneself physically to receive more of the Holy Spirit's power. And there certainly is a physical inside cleansing that goes on through fasting also.

However I wonder why when we are told in Eph. 5:8 to 'Stop getting drunk with wine, which leads to wild living, but keep on being filled with the Spirit.' (ISV) it did not say anything about fasting to make room for more 'grace of the Holy Spirit'. And the other references in Acts to water baptism did not refer to this need to fast prior to water baptism.

Are there any other references in the NT to fasting to 'empty oneself' to obtain exceptional power from on high ? And does the prayer & fasting text mentioned apply to us today to give us that same power of the apostles to work miracles ? It would seem this fasting practise is no longer followed in Chrisianity prior to being baptised, is this correct ? Any thoughts on this ?
Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
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MaxPC
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by MaxPC »

Thank you, Sudsy.
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by MaxPC »

Valerie wrote:
Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
To prepare for His ministry. Now what kind of fast was it? Water alone? Small amounts of food and water after sundown?
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ohio jones
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by ohio jones »

MaxPC wrote:
Valerie wrote:Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
To prepare for His ministry. Now what kind of fast was it? Water alone? Small amounts of food and water after sundown?
Luke 4:2 is pretty clear that it wasn't small amounts of food after sundown.
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Sudsy
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Sudsy »

Valerie wrote: Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
I found this very interesting - http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2016 ... he-desert/
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Valerie
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy wrote:
Valerie wrote: Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
I found this very interesting - http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2016 ... he-desert/
I have learned to understand and appreciate more of the ancient faiths purpose & reasons for doing such things- although- when the ancient faith's practice 40 days of fasting corporately (done 40 years prior to the Nativity, and 40 days prior to Pascha (Easter) it is not going 40 days without food, but it is a strict fast of abstaining from a lot of things and I tell you what- it is not easy! It makes you realize because Jesus went without food, how hard that would be!
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Valerie
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy I think that you would benefit from this book by David Bercot:

https://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/ ... onary.html

it covers more than 700 topics discussed by the early church fathers- granted- their 'quotes' are taken out of context in their extensive writings, as we constantly take the Holy Scriptures out of context-
However- it really does give you deeper understandings of things like 'baptism' than what the Reformers seemed to convey- when you study the early church writers/fathers they are able to expound more of the teachings of the Church handed down from the Apostles- you know Jesus said:
John 16:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Apostle Paul said this:

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

When will the Holy Spirit open up the understanding to us? I pray He does- we sometimes seem to barely tap into it- and be satisfied with milk.

In David Bercot's book there are several pages that go into the topic of baptism- to gain more understanding of what the early church was taught about it more in detail- certainly one can get baptized 'on the spot' but I don't think most churches make practice of this- the Didache goes into the need of teaching and fasting first- the Holy Spirit continued to guide & teach the Church-

Just as a example among the many quotes- it was commonplace to fast before baptism-

Justin Martyr: (c.180)

"I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ.....As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their past sins. The rest of us pray and fast with them. They are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were regenerated ourselves. They there receive the washing with water in the name of God (the Father and the Lord of the the universe) of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. For Christ also said "Unless you are born again, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Anyways- you can tell that there was a much deeper and more unified understanding of baptism then what occured at the time of the Reformation which then led into myriads of understandings & really divided the Church immediately- so that now depending on denomination, there so many different teachings that it's hard to know where the Holy Spirit is in all this- I recommend the book to you- I for one appreciate baptism more than ever, and do not see it as just symbolic- although symbolism is part of it- and certainly in denominations that teach symbol only, it would be-

The original meaning of 'symbol' also has a deeper definition/understanding than the more modern defintion of symbol-
(which partly explains why there is a difference in the ancient church's understanding of baptism and eucharist (communion) and later denominations understandings)-
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by ken_sylvania »

Zwingli, Luther and the other Protestant reformers couldn't teach the full Bible truth about baptism because they were afraid to let go of infant baptism.
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Re: Fasting prior to Baptism

Post by Hats Off »

Valerie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
Valerie wrote: Do you have any idea why Jesus fasted for 40 days?
I found this very interesting - http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2016 ... he-desert/
I have learned to understand and appreciate more of the ancient faiths purpose & reasons for doing such things- although- when the ancient faith's practice 40 days of fasting corporately (done 40 years prior to the Nativity, and 40 days prior to Pascha (Easter) it is not going 40 days without food, but it is a strict fast of abstaining from a lot of things and I tell you what- it is not easy! It makes you realize because Jesus went without food, how hard that would be!
How was it possible to fast 40 years before the birth of the Messiah when no one knew when that would be? Was it an accidental fast? Where in the NT do we read about this fast? How was it possible to fast 40 days before the crucifixion and resurrection when no living person knew the time that this was to happen? Was this an accidental fast? Where in the NT do we read about this fast?
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