Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

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Valerie
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by Valerie »

This link helped me with understanding some things:
Please take the TIME to read it carefully- thanks

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Theotokos
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Hats Off
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

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I have no time or interest in reading what may be found at that link. There is no question that Mary was greatly honoured by being chosen to bear the Son of God. Those scriptures in Luke 1 and 2 are really precious. What we read further of Mary helps us to understand that with the passage of time, she accepted Him as she did her other sons. But at the end of her life she died as did my mother and my wife's mother.
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Valerie
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

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Hats Off wrote:I have no time or interest in reading what may be found at that link. There is no question that Mary was greatly honoured by being chosen to bear the Son of God. Those scriptures in Luke 1 and 2 are really precious. What we read further of Mary helps us to understand that with the passage of time, she accepted Him as she did her other sons. But at the end of her life she died as did my mother and my wife's mother.
That's fine Hats Off, we all have priorities, I understand that.
We (in our home) desire to see the Church at large bridge some gaps to bring us all closer together- this takes time, and it takes a desire to understand- we (in our home) had many assumptions but because of some folks in the ancient faiths that we highly respected, and recognized their love & devotion to God, it caused us to consider that maybe we could be wrong about some things- indeed we were enlightened to some things when we began to explore Anabaptism- and then removed more assumptions when trying to understand teachings of the ancient faith where we discovered the heart & foundation for some teachings that we misunderstood before. To us, it has been helpful, and although I doubt the Church will ever be "One" again, it would be nice if we can gain understandings. I have personally been so discouraged over the 'walls' that divide and hope that we realize that none of us are infallible in our understandings & teachings.
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silentreader
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by silentreader »

Valerie wrote:
Hats Off wrote:I have no time or interest in reading what may be found at that link. There is no question that Mary was greatly honoured by being chosen to bear the Son of God. Those scriptures in Luke 1 and 2 are really precious. What we read further of Mary helps us to understand that with the passage of time, she accepted Him as she did her other sons. But at the end of her life she died as did my mother and my wife's mother.
That's fine Hats Off, we all have priorities, I understand that.
We (in our home) desire to see the Church at large bridge some gaps to bring us all closer together- this takes time, and it takes a desire to understand- we (in our home) had many assumptions but because of some folks in the ancient faiths that we highly respected, and recognized their love & devotion to God, it caused us to consider that maybe we could be wrong about some things- indeed we were enlightened to some things when we began to explore Anabaptism- and then removed more assumptions when trying to understand teachings of the ancient faith where we discovered the heart & foundation for some teachings that we misunderstood before. To us, it has been helpful, and although I doubt the Church will ever be "One" again, it would be nice if we can gain understandings. I have personally been so discouraged over the 'walls' that divide and hope that we realize that none of us are infallible in our understandings & teachings.
That's called compromise, and I for one, am not interested.
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mike
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

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Hats Off wrote:I have no time or interest in reading what may be found at that link. There is no question that Mary was greatly honoured by being chosen to bear the Son of God. Those scriptures in Luke 1 and 2 are really precious. What we read further of Mary helps us to understand that with the passage of time, she accepted Him as she did her other sons. But at the end of her life she died as did my mother and my wife's mother.
And she was not perfect, sinless, or born free from original sin, either, as the Catholic Church teaches.
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ohio jones
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by ohio jones »

I think we are seeing a difference in hermeneutic here. The thread title is "Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding." An Anabaptist/Mennonite is generally going to approach the question by first seeing what scripture has to say on the subject. So the title could just as well be "Mary - a Biblical understanding." As Sudsy put it recently,
The truth I'm interested in is the truths found in scripture not all these other articles and whatnots that folk reference.
If the articles and whatnots introduce ideas that go way beyond scripture, or conflict with it, the Anabaptist/Mennonite approach would be to reject the extrabiblical rather than embrace it as a new understanding. Even if it comes from a source that we would like to trust. Not that we do this perfectly, of course, but sometimes the walls that divide really are the boundaries of what the Bible plainly says.
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Valerie
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by Valerie »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I'll reply as overall I identify with Anabaptism. Sorry if you meant this was for more "real" Anabaptists.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
If you look at the prayer overall, and the specific verse quoted above, I see Mary as pointing all glory to God. Nowhere does it indicate that she is at all worthy of any praise or credit. I believe she is to be called blessed, and in fact she is, because she was used by our God as an instrument of bringing His Son to earth. That is why she is blessed. Nothing to do with her, her nature, or any special attributes. All because of God.
Yet there's something I seem to conclude that is absent from the group in general- the impression I get is that most people here feel God just radomly selected some Jewish girl to bring His Son into the world- to take on human flesh & Divinity at the same time- is that correct? But what does Scripture say?
from Luke 1:
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

To me it seems that people do not have a problem with what man says about Mary, but also has a problem with what God said & felt about Mary through His angel Gabriel-
It doesn't come across as 'random selection' of any ol' Jewish girl-
God Himself, sent Gabriel who said "Hail, thou art highly favored"
and "Thou has found favour with God"

That strikes me as God recognizing something in Mary, and probably her humbleness and humility have a lot to do with it-
If we can see God praising her (but not in the same type of Praise that He alone deserves) but I don't know too many people that an angel appeared to and proclaimed they are highly favored among women-
I think we tend to forget that Scriptural teaching about how God felt about her-
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Valerie
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by Valerie »

silentreader wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Hats Off wrote:I have no time or interest in reading what may be found at that link. There is no question that Mary was greatly honoured by being chosen to bear the Son of God. Those scriptures in Luke 1 and 2 are really precious. What we read further of Mary helps us to understand that with the passage of time, she accepted Him as she did her other sons. But at the end of her life she died as did my mother and my wife's mother.
That's fine Hats Off, we all have priorities, I understand that.
We (in our home) desire to see the Church at large bridge some gaps to bring us all closer together- this takes time, and it takes a desire to understand- we (in our home) had many assumptions but because of some folks in the ancient faiths that we highly respected, and recognized their love & devotion to God, it caused us to consider that maybe we could be wrong about some things- indeed we were enlightened to some things when we began to explore Anabaptism- and then removed more assumptions when trying to understand teachings of the ancient faith where we discovered the heart & foundation for some teachings that we misunderstood before. To us, it has been helpful, and although I doubt the Church will ever be "One" again, it would be nice if we can gain understandings. I have personally been so discouraged over the 'walls' that divide and hope that we realize that none of us are infallible in our understandings & teachings.
That's called compromise, and I for one, am not interested.
Well, I wouldn't call it compromise, we have realized that 'we' are not infallible in our own assumptions so seek to understand more truth about what the 2000 year old Church believed and why, where these beliefs come from, etc-
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Valerie
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by Valerie »

ohio jones wrote:I think we are seeing a difference in hermeneutic here. The thread title is "Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding." An Anabaptist/Mennonite is generally going to approach the question by first seeing what scripture has to say on the subject. So the title could just as well be "Mary - a Biblical understanding." As Sudsy put it recently,
The truth I'm interested in is the truths found in scripture not all these other articles and whatnots that folk reference.
If the articles and whatnots introduce ideas that go way beyond scripture, or conflict with it, the Anabaptist/Mennonite approach would be to reject the extrabiblical rather than embrace it as a new understanding. Even if it comes from a source that we would like to trust. Not that we do this perfectly, of course, but sometimes the walls that divide really are the boundaries of what the Bible plainly says.
Then it is almost futile for Boot to invite any Catholics or Orthodox teachings into this- I thought he was inerested in learning both sides because obviously there is a big difference-

A couple of points regarding what you stated-
I understand that Anabaptists (and others) are pretty much Sola Scriptura- this method of application has sected the west into over 26,000 sects of Christianity- so that approach of what the Bible plainly says is proving itself to not be as clear and plain as we wish to believe- even within Anabaptism, and other denominations- things are not so plain. Even from the earliest days of Anabaptism- we have the Hutterites the Mennonites, the Amish- all by 'plain' Scripture- I don't think that most seem to mind that, but to me it's saying things aren't/weren't as 'plain' by Scripture only as we claim- we are suppose to have a 'oneness' appearance and all speak the same things- would you say this is the way the Holy Spirit guides?

We now understand there was oral and written traditions (teachings) by 2 Thessalonians 2:15. Scripture itself claims 'oral' teachings. What else does Scripture teach? The Holy Spirit's involvement in the building of the Church was not dependent on a New Testament. I understand that it's easier to rely solely on Scripture, even if that method has divided up the Church into way too many sects- causing more confusion- which God is not the author of.

We know a lot more was said and discussed by Jesus that was passed on orally, and so the Apostles started the Church orally and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit- and using the Old Testament- and addressing new churches they started by epistles- that does not mean that this is 'all' the information we have- there is much that we learn from the writings of the early Church fathers.

If Scripture that we rely on, says there are oral & written teachings, then we already know that much was done without being written- and the Church was being 'built' and the Holy Spirit was guiding her- as we consider our modern day churches- do they really appear exactly as their origins? If not why? If so, why?

However a lot of history has been shared with us that helps explain many of the questions we have had- once I get better understanding from things shared, then it is up to us to pray & seek God about it- we had been using this approach when considering Anabaptism too because many of their traditions were not found in Scripture either-
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silentreader
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Re: Mary - an Anabaptist / Mennonite understanding

Post by silentreader »

Valerie wrote:
silentreader wrote:
Valerie wrote:
That's fine Hats Off, we all have priorities, I understand that.
We (in our home) desire to see the Church at large bridge some gaps to bring us all closer together- this takes time, and it takes a desire to understand- we (in our home) had many assumptions but because of some folks in the ancient faiths that we highly respected, and recognized their love & devotion to God, it caused us to consider that maybe we could be wrong about some things- indeed we were enlightened to some things when we began to explore Anabaptism- and then removed more assumptions when trying to understand teachings of the ancient faith where we discovered the heart & foundation for some teachings that we misunderstood before. To us, it has been helpful, and although I doubt the Church will ever be "One" again, it would be nice if we can gain understandings. I have personally been so discouraged over the 'walls' that divide and hope that we realize that none of us are infallible in our understandings & teachings.
That's called compromise, and I for one, am not interested.
Well, I wouldn't call it compromise, we have realized that 'we' are not infallible in our own assumptions so seek to understand more truth about what the 2000 year old Church believed and why, where these beliefs come from, etc-
Well see that's the problem, you need to call it what it is. What you consider understanding, is obviously deception when compared to Scripture.
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