Veneration of Mary, split from are pc anabaptist?

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Valerie
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Valerie »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
MaxPC wrote:
mike wrote: Regarding baptism, that is quite interesting, and something I've never heard before from a Catholic. So which is the custom of Plain Catholics - infant or adult baptism?

Regarding the Sword, I'm not referring the the just war theory, but to the use of the sword generally. Are you saying that the Vatican is re-examining the use of the sword in general, or simply re-examining the just war theory? Because, as I am sure you know, Anabaptists are not in opposition to merely a particular theory of war, but to war generally.
This may be clear as mud or it may be confusing; hopefully neither.

Re Baptism Mike, Plain Catholics follow the Catechism. We leave it up to the individual family to participate when they are ready. Our tri-partite Rite of Initiation to the Faith consists of 3 Sacraments: Baptism, First Communion and Confirmation. It occurs over a wide range of ages. Whereas the Anabaptist rite of initiation to the fellowship involves Baptism only (if I remember correctly). We have so many different ethnic cultures in our Church that our initiation rites will vary in age ranges from one region or country to the next. In the Plain Catholic charism we have families from different ethnicities because of that diversity. The Catechism is universal to our faith. Charisms are expressions of that faith. Baptism is one part of the overall great teaching of Christ in Catholic World.

Re the sword: I cannot predict where the Vatican discussion will lead. These things take prayer, discernment and many discussions. Military service is not mandated in our Church. It's not a part of our Deposit of Faith. There are Catholics who do serve in the military and there are those who do not. Again much of that stems from the cultural diversity in the larger fold.
Oh come now. Enough of this. The church of Rome (Which may still consider me a member) is not, has never been Anabaptist.

1. They have exchanged the true Christian baptism for the "Roman Bath," which does no more than baptizing my dog, seeing as it is given without faith.

2. They have exchanged the Lord's table, for one proclaiming a phoney miracle (Transubstantiation) and claim to repeat the once for all sacrifice of Calvary.

3. They have made a mockery of the permanence of marriage, selling "Annulments" that make it like a marriage never happened. I know they may dispute the word "selling" but it is just as bad if they give them away. This is false, and defies both the Scriptures and logic.

4. They follow the leadership of one they call the "Holy Father" a blasphemous title if there ever was one. He can by the word of his mouth make something sinful acceptable. (Look up indult)

5. They call the mother of Jesus the "Queen of Heaven" "Queen Assumed Into Heaven" and even "Co-Redemptrix"

6. They willingly co-operate with the military machine, to the point of having priests serve as chaplains. If this is not an endorsement, I really don't know what is.

If this is anabaptist, I am Balthasar Hubmaier's donkey.

J.M.
So says you J.M. but you're making accusations you may be limited in understanding of, and accountable for- I had the same list going on from the Protestant churches which caused me to look into just about everything you say here (EO doesn't have some of these things- some were by Rome alone)- and to gain understanding- these are opinions and I don't see you as 'speaking for God' Jesus is King, His Mother is Queen- you should really look into the Scripture that supports that- because it came from Scripture, and came from the understanding of King Queen relationships- It was God, who chose Mary- the "Highly Favored One" as the Angel Gabriel addressed her, to have God the Son take part of her human flesh to be the ark that carried God the Son- really the ancient explanation for her role removed the disrepspect for Jesus mother, that I find quite alarming sometimes- granted- I pursued deeper understandings rather than attack as my approach because if Jesus feels the way you do about His Mother who He gave over to Apostle John for care, then I would be quite surprised-
Last edited by Valerie on Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Veneration of Mary, split from are pc anabaptist?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Valerie wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
MaxPC wrote: This may be clear as mud or it may be confusing; hopefully neither.

Re Baptism Mike, Plain Catholics follow the Catechism. We leave it up to the individual family to participate when they are ready. Our tri-partite Rite of Initiation to the Faith consists of 3 Sacraments: Baptism, First Communion and Confirmation. It occurs over a wide range of ages. Whereas the Anabaptist rite of initiation to the fellowship involves Baptism only (if I remember correctly). We have so many different ethnic cultures in our Church that our initiation rites will vary in age ranges from one region or country to the next. In the Plain Catholic charism we have families from different ethnicities because of that diversity. The Catechism is universal to our faith. Charisms are expressions of that faith. Baptism is one part of the overall great teaching of Christ in Catholic World.

Re the sword: I cannot predict where the Vatican discussion will lead. These things take prayer, discernment and many discussions. Military service is not mandated in our Church. It's not a part of our Deposit of Faith. There are Catholics who do serve in the military and there are those who do not. Again much of that stems from the cultural diversity in the larger fold.
Oh come now. Enough of this. The church of Rome (Which may still consider me a member) is not, has never been Anabaptist.

1. They have exchanged the true Christian baptism for the "Roman Bath," which does no more than baptizing my dog, seeing as it is given without faith.

2. They have exchanged the Lord's table, for one proclaiming a phoney miracle (Transubstantiation) and claim to repeat the once for all sacrifice of Calvary.

3. They have made a mockery of the permanence of marriage, selling "Annulments" that make it like a marriage never happened. I know they may dispute the word "selling" but it is just as bad if they give them away. This is false, and defies both the Scriptures and logic.

4. They follow the leadership of one they call the "Holy Father" a blasphemous title if there ever was one. He can by the word of his mouth make something sinful acceptable. (Look up indult)

5. They call the mother of Jesus the "Queen of Heaven" "Queen Assumed Into Heaven" and even "Co-Redemptrix"

6. They willingly co-operate with the military machine, to the point of having priests serve as chaplains. If this is not an endorsement, I really don't know what is.

If this is anabaptist, I am Balthasar Hubmaier's donkey.

J.M.
So says you J.M. but you're making accusations you may be limited in understanding of, and accountable for- I had the same list going on from the Protestant churches which caused me to look into just about everything you say here (EO doesn't have some of these things- some were by Rome alone)- and to gain understanding- these are opinions and I don't see you as 'speaking for God' Jesus is King, His Mother is Queen- you should really look into the Scripture that supports that- because it came from Scripture, and came from the understanding of King Queen relationships- It was God, who chose Mary- the "Highly Favored One" as the Angel Gabriel addressed her, to have God the Son take part of her human flesh to be the ark that carried God the Son- really the ancient explanation for her role removed the disrepspect for Jesus mother, that I find quite alarming sometimes- granted- I pursued deeper understandings rather than attack as my approach because if Jesus feels the way you do about His Mother who He gave over to Apostle John for care, then I would be quite surprised-
Only verse on the "veneration" of Mary:

Luke 11:27+28: And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

In other words, this is not something we should be doing.

J.M.
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Valerie
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Valerie »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Oh come now. Enough of this. The church of Rome (Which may still consider me a member) is not, has never been Anabaptist.

1. They have exchanged the true Christian baptism for the "Roman Bath," which does no more than baptizing my dog, seeing as it is given without faith.

2. They have exchanged the Lord's table, for one proclaiming a phoney miracle (Transubstantiation) and claim to repeat the once for all sacrifice of Calvary.

3. They have made a mockery of the permanence of marriage, selling "Annulments" that make it like a marriage never happened. I know they may dispute the word "selling" but it is just as bad if they give them away. This is false, and defies both the Scriptures and logic.

4. They follow the leadership of one they call the "Holy Father" a blasphemous title if there ever was one. He can by the word of his mouth make something sinful acceptable. (Look up indult)

5. They call the mother of Jesus the "Queen of Heaven" "Queen Assumed Into Heaven" and even "Co-Redemptrix"

6. They willingly co-operate with the military machine, to the point of having priests serve as chaplains. If this is not an endorsement, I really don't know what is.

If this is anabaptist, I am Balthasar Hubmaier's donkey.

J.M.
So says you J.M. but you're making accusations you may be limited in understanding of, and accountable for- I had the same list going on from the Protestant churches which caused me to look into just about everything you say here (EO doesn't have some of these things- some were by Rome alone)- and to gain understanding- these are opinions and I don't see you as 'speaking for God' Jesus is King, His Mother is Queen- you should really look into the Scripture that supports that- because it came from Scripture, and came from the understanding of King Queen relationships- It was God, who chose Mary- the "Highly Favored One" as the Angel Gabriel addressed her, to have God the Son take part of her human flesh to be the ark that carried God the Son- really the ancient explanation for her role removed the disrepspect for Jesus mother, that I find quite alarming sometimes- granted- I pursued deeper understandings rather than attack as my approach because if Jesus feels the way you do about His Mother who He gave over to Apostle John for care, then I would be quite surprised-
Only verse on the "veneration" of Mary:

Luke 11:27+28: And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

In other words, this is not something we should be doing.

J.M.
Yes! Which is EXACTLY what Mary did, she heard the word of God, & kept it! this is a typical protestant understanding J.M., used it myself until it was rightly explained--

Here is some veneration:
Luke 1:
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
(Not sure if God has ever sent an angel to any of us with those words)

Also, the response of Mary's cousin Elizabeth & even the baby, John, in her womb:

39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

I don't know how many women's voices caused another woman to have the baby they were carrying 'leap in their womb' at the sound of it, nor how many women were addressed "the Mother of my Lord"-
See Mary is venerated, maybe the problem is with protestant minds lack of understanding deeper things-

Also the Church understands Psalm 45 (or 44 in the Septuagint) prophetically and can explain it well- Can you explain this chapter of Psalms J.M.?

Psalm 45King James Version (KJV)

45 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.

12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.

13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.

14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.

15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.

16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.

17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

King James Version (KJV)
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Valerie
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Re: Are Plain Catholics Anabaptists?

Post by Valerie »

Wayne in Maine wrote:
justme wrote:tell me which posts you want moved, and i'll do it.
Any posts referencing veneration of Mary, Mary being God's mom, Eastern Orthodoxy or infant baptism (except any of the above by any plain catholics).
That would be removing clear Scripture-
For it was declared IN SCRIPTURE:

Luke 1:
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Mary is not the Mother of the Father, but She is the Mother of the Lord and the Lord is God- I realize it is confusing to those who cannot see-I realize most of us have not clearly understood the difference between worship and veneration-
that is not Jesus' fault, nor the fault of Mary, nor the fault of the Church- however, the 'attack' on Mary in JM's post made me realize how upset her Son would have felt about that- if He dwells in you, then degrading her would upset the Son in you- but since most of the Protestant side of Christianity is limited in understanding of worship vs veneration, if it 'scares' you to give double honor (as the Scripture teaches) to whom honor is due- then feel free to deny whom God called "Highly favored one" and keep exalting your own in your own sects higher-

but Jesus saw it- and so did prophesy declare it- and it was fulfilled in Mary, that our Lord would take human flesh- and Christ's very first 'public' miracle, was done- because Jesus honored His mother-
If you truly want to follow Jesus, then you need to follow Him in every aspect- love, and honor His mother- as He did.


John 2:1-11King James Version (KJV)

2 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
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