Thankyou for your input as I, too, am interested in searching out the truth.silentreader wrote:So it's interesting that most of the 'clear' examples come from the 'OC' period, which, if I remember correctly, you said earlier was different from how God worked in the 'NC', unless, of course they can serve as prooftexts.Sudsy wrote:Those items listed 1-10 in that Renew article.silentreader wrote:
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Unless I'm missing something, the plain reading of the NT passages given do not suggest that any of the women mentioned were in pastoral or authority positions. Pheobe is not called a deacon or deaconess in Romans 16:1 but is called a diakonos of the church at Cenchreae, translated servant in a lot of translations and can mean several different things.
What is interesting to me is that people who favor female pastors often say that Paul was 'anti-woman', and that it was his own idea and teaching that women could not be in leadership, and yet here, in the opening verses of Romans 16 we see clearly the deep respect that Paul had for Christian women, not at all suggesting that Paul thought they were lesser, but rather that his prohibition was because of differences in roles of men and women in the church (NC by the way), reflective of God's order.
There is a possibility that Phoebe, and possibly others of the women mentioned in the beginning of Romans 16 were given the responsibility of bearing the letter to Rome, and Paul's glowing mention of them was a form of introduction.
Of the Scripture texts in the 'renew' article, I would not consider any of them a clear statement for women in ministry, but rather are used as prooftexts to support opinions based on human reasoning.
I really didn't want to get involved in this, I'm sorry, I let myself get sucked in, but truth, and searching for truth, is important to me, because the opposite of truth is falsehood, and even though we can do wrong things 'innocently' in ignorance, I think Scripture teaches that if we love a lie, it becomes a salvation issue.
Women in ministry as a stand-alone issue, (IMO) is probably not a salvation issue. It may or may not be a slippery slope, but it is the thin edge of the wedge.
OK I'd like to be done with this now, opinions are not going to change anyway.
Salvation issues
Re: Salvation issues
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Re: Salvation issues
Ran across this this morning in Ecclesiasticus 19:20-24 (Apocrypha)
The fear of the Lord is all wisdom; and in all wisdom is the performance of the law. The knowledge of wickedness is not wisdom, neither at any time the counsel of sinners prudence. There is a wickedness, and the same an abomination; and there is a fool wanting in wisdom. He that hath small understanding, and feareth God, is better than one that hath much wisdom, and transgresseth the law of the Most High.
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Re: Salvation issues
Our home minister when I was growing up was ordained before he was married although I believe they were waiting on a home becoming available before taking that step. A nephew was ordained before they were married, but like in the other case, marriage plans progressed faster.lesterb wrote:Not all conservative churches refuse to ordain single men. Four of my friends were ordained as single men. All four are married today, but three of them had no girl friends when they were ordained.RZehr wrote:Neither of these men would be qualified to be a pastor.Sudsy wrote: How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.
Regarding the phrase "who is called" - who is doing this calling? I personally put little stock in someone saying that they have a "calling" when it goes against what is taught in the Bible. Such as a woman or a single man or a remarried divorced person saying they are "called".
Another thing about who is doing the calling - Our practice is that the church does the calling in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this is the only way it must be done, but there are benefits with this way if you have a close church fellowship like many plain communities have.
In fact, I didn't realize that some conservative churches wouldn't ordain a single man who qualified otherwise. Probably the Ultra-Conservatives might. Hats Off, what would your group do?
I probably would not nominate a dating but unmarried man for the reason that I would not want to be involved in helping them make a decision about marriage.
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Re: Salvation issues
Sudsy wrote:Those items listed 1-10 in that Renew article.silentreader wrote:?Sudsy wrote: Sorry I forgot to respond. Yes, these examples have scripture texts in each.
Sudsy wrote:The truth I'm interested in is the truths found in scripture not all these other articles and whatnots that folk reference.
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I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
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Re: Salvation issues
sigh... oh well...ohio jones wrote:Sudsy wrote:Those items listed 1-10 in that Renew article.silentreader wrote: ?Sudsy wrote:The truth I'm interested in is the truths found in scripture not all these other articles and whatnots that folk reference.
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Re: Salvation issues
If an article has references to scriptures to support a belief (as this one does), I am interested. If it is something like 'whose news report is the correct one', that seldom interests me. Chasing down whose 'fake news' is not 'fake news' I can leave up to the TV pundits.silentreader wrote:sigh... oh well...ohio jones wrote:Sudsy wrote: Those items listed 1-10 in that Renew article.Sudsy wrote:The truth I'm interested in is the truths found in scripture not all these other articles and whatnots that folk reference.
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