Salvation issues
-
- Posts: 9120
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
- Location: Former full time RVers
- Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
- Contact:
Re: Salvation issues
Nifty technicolor in your posts, Sudsy.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Salvation issues
How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.ohio jones wrote:Sudsy wrote:It sounds to me that you associate a pastor role with having 'authority over a man' whereas I don't. Actually there is no scripture saying that a woman cannot be a pastor.Well, there's the requirement for a church leader (pastor, deacon, minister, bishop, overseer, elder -- pick your passage and translation) to be the husband of one wife. If you remove enough restrictions, you can end up interpreting this like some in MCUSA. I think they are using way too much creativity with the "husband" part, but I don't see a stopping point between your position and theirs.Sudsy wrote:Our MB church and MC USA (I believe) have removed this restriction to allow everyone 'In Christ' to participate in any role. Are we all going to hell for it ? Not in my understanding of the NT.MWR wrote:Lea and her partner will marry in November. Shortly thereafter they will move to New Mexico, when she will begin serving as Albuquerque Mennonite’s pastor.
But I guess if one considers change to be a guaranteed slippery slope, then rebaptism when Anabaptism was founded also was likely regarded as a slippery slope interpretation of scripture.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
- ohio jones
- Posts: 5305
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: undisclosed
- Affiliation: Rosedale Network
Re: Salvation issues
Another example of whataboutism.Sudsy wrote:How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.ohio jones wrote:Sudsy wrote:It sounds to me that you associate a pastor role with having 'authority over a man' whereas I don't. Actually there is no scripture saying that a woman cannot be a pastor.Well, there's the requirement for a church leader (pastor, deacon, minister, bishop, overseer, elder -- pick your passage and translation) to be the husband of one wife. If you remove enough restrictions, you can end up interpreting this like some in MCUSA. I think they are using way too much creativity with the "husband" part, but I don't see a stopping point between your position and theirs.Sudsy wrote:Our MB church and MC USA (I believe) have removed this restriction to allow everyone 'In Christ' to participate in any role. Are we all going to hell for it ? Not in my understanding of the NT.MWR wrote:Lea and her partner will marry in November. Shortly thereafter they will move to New Mexico, when she will begin serving as Albuquerque Mennonite’s pastor.
But I guess if one considers change to be a guaranteed slippery slope, then rebaptism when Anabaptism was founded also was likely regarded as a slippery slope interpretation of scripture.
"Husband of one wife" can mean "a one-woman man" which would not exclude a single man, whether previously married (to no more than one woman) or not. It would exclude a remarried man. Whether that misses the reason or not depends on what the reason is. I think the reason is that a leader must have a singleness of focus; someone who can be distracted by other women could also be distracted by other gods and thus is not qualified to be a leader.
I picture the slippery slope as an inverted catenary. None of us are perfectly in the center (though some of us are pretty close ), but the farther out you get the more downward pull there is.
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
Re: Salvation issues
Thankyou. I don't agree in total but most Anabaptists don't agree in total and sometimes not that often.ohio jones wrote:Another example of whataboutism.Sudsy wrote:How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.ohio jones wrote:
Well, there's the requirement for a church leader (pastor, deacon, minister, bishop, overseer, elder -- pick your passage and translation) to be the husband of one wife. If you remove enough restrictions, you can end up interpreting this like some in MCUSA. I think they are using way too much creativity with the "husband" part, but I don't see a stopping point between your position and theirs.
But I guess if one considers change to be a guaranteed slippery slope, then rebaptism when Anabaptism was founded also was likely regarded as a slippery slope interpretation of scripture.
"Husband of one wife" can mean "a one-woman man" which would not exclude a single man, whether previously married (to no more than one woman) or not. It would exclude a remarried man. Whether that misses the reason or not depends on what the reason is. I think the reason is that a leader must have a singleness of focus; someone who can be distracted by other women could also be distracted by other gods and thus is not qualified to be a leader.
I picture the slippery slope as an inverted catenary. None of us are perfectly in the center (though some of us are pretty close ), but the farther out you get the more downward pull there is.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Re: Salvation issues
Neither of these men would be qualified to be a pastor.Sudsy wrote: How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.
Regarding the phrase "who is called" - who is doing this calling? I personally put little stock in someone saying that they have a "calling" when it goes against what is taught in the Bible. Such as a woman or a single man or a remarried divorced person saying they are "called".
Another thing about who is doing the calling - Our practice is that the church does the calling in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this is the only way it must be done, but there are benefits with this way if you have a close church fellowship like many plain communities have.
0 x
Re: Salvation issues
I don't think Felix Manz was drowned because he was on a slippery slope. He was drowned as a heretic - none of our modern nice slippery slope language.Sudsy wrote: But I guess if one considers change to be a guaranteed slippery slope, then rebaptism when Anabaptism was founded also was likely regarded as a slippery slope interpretation of scripture.
0 x
-
- Posts: 5317
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
- Location: Medina OH
- Affiliation: non-denominational
Re: Salvation issues
Sudsy had provided the church service video which was encouraging women to step up to the plate & become pastors- after listening to the propaganda, and misinterpretation of scripture passages & misapplying others- the pastor then had an altar call for women to be prayed over for this 'calling'. I've truly never seen anything like it. I now understand how MCUSA has operated in furthering the direction it is taking people. It's happened in many denominations in the same way, but again we are reminded of the falling away before the Son of Man returns-false teaching, false doctrines, false prophets- are abounding in these days we live, in large numbers.RZehr wrote:Neither of these men would be qualified to be a pastor.Sudsy wrote: How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.
Regarding the phrase "who is called" - who is doing this calling? I personally put little stock in someone saying that they have a "calling" when it goes against what is taught in the Bible. Such as a woman or a single man or a remarried divorced person saying they are "called".
Another thing about who is doing the calling - Our practice is that the church does the calling in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this is the only way it must be done, but there are benefits with this way if you have a close church fellowship like many plain communities have.
0 x
Re: Salvation issues
And you have your interpretations of scripture as do I. God has used many single men who had no wife to possibly detract them and some, like RC priests, have and never will qualify as the 'husband of one wife'. Believing in forgiveness and new beginnings, the remarried man is the 'husband of one wife' as the previous marriage is no longer binding. So, we are not going to agree on our interpretations. As for callings and gifts to teach and preach, these are up to the Holy Spirit to give and not our interpretations of scripture which we all think are the right ones. It sounds like you see these interpretations of scripture 'deal breakers' for one's salvation, I'm not sure. I don't. I'm glad there are places of worship and Christian communities where we can serve the Lord with the interpretations we have and especially when some of us can find them within Anabaptism.RZehr wrote:Neither of these men would be qualified to be a pastor.Sudsy wrote: How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.
Regarding the phrase "who is called" - who is doing this calling? I personally put little stock in someone saying that they have a "calling" when it goes against what is taught in the Bible. Such as a woman or a single man or a remarried divorced person saying they are "called".
Another thing about who is doing the calling - Our practice is that the church does the calling in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this is the only way it must be done, but there are benefits with this way if you have a close church fellowship like many plain communities have.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
-
- Posts: 1160
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 pm
- Location: Alberta
- Affiliation: Western Fellowship
- Contact:
Re: Salvation issues
Not all conservative churches refuse to ordain single men. Four of my friends were ordained as single men. All four are married today, but three of them had no girl friends when they were ordained.RZehr wrote:Neither of these men would be qualified to be a pastor.Sudsy wrote: How do you approach an unmarried man who is called to some leadership role but is not 'the husband of one wife' or the man who was divorced before he became a believer and has remarried a believer and now has a solid family life ? I think some hard line interpretations miss the reason behind these qualifiers.
Regarding the phrase "who is called" - who is doing this calling? I personally put little stock in someone saying that they have a "calling" when it goes against what is taught in the Bible. Such as a woman or a single man or a remarried divorced person saying they are "called".
Another thing about who is doing the calling - Our practice is that the church does the calling in conjunction with the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying this is the only way it must be done, but there are benefits with this way if you have a close church fellowship like many plain communities have.
In fact, I didn't realize that some conservative churches wouldn't ordain a single man who qualified otherwise. Probably the Ultra-Conservatives might. Hats Off, what would your group do?
0 x
Re: Salvation issues
Yes I'm aware that single men have been ordained. I don't think it is best.
This is a Salvation Issue thread, so I should state that I don't necessarily believe this to be a salvation issue. I also would be slow to say that it would be a salvation issue in regard to a women pastor as well. But at the same time, I would never condone it or support it.
This is a Salvation Issue thread, so I should state that I don't necessarily believe this to be a salvation issue. I also would be slow to say that it would be a salvation issue in regard to a women pastor as well. But at the same time, I would never condone it or support it.
0 x