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Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:14 pm
by appleman2006
ohio jones wrote:Josh wrote:Actually, there was a pretty consistent eschatology amongst Christians since the beginning. Holdemans, Old Order Amish, and Eastern Orthodox have the exact same eschatology, for example.
Ideas like the rapture and premillennialism in general are a relatively recent invention. Before John Darby decided to invent his own commentary on what the Bible actually says, most people were content being amillenial or postmillenial.
Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and many other early church fathers were premillenial. Eusebius describes it as the majority view. Then Augustine came along and popularized amillennialism -- along with just war and proto-Calvinism, so Mennonites who view Augustine with wariness often extend that skepticism to his eschatology.
What
is a recent invention is dispensationalism and the pretribulation rapture. Those should be distinguished from historic premillennialism.
I agree with this assessment and for that reason I can at least stomach those that hold to historical pre views as opposed to what most people hold to today which is the strong dispensationalist type teaching. There are very few historical pres around although I have run into one or two of them. The late Oliver Hess I believe described himself as such. I think Walter Beachy might lean that way as well although I may be wrong.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:31 pm
by KingdomBuilder
gcdonner wrote:He was a historian, not a critic...
It's not much of a stretch to see he didn't really agree with it......
Quite evident by his holding of another view.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:45 pm
by cmbl
Josh wrote:
We can't unless we are willing to abandon fundamentalism, which is really just an early step on the path to liberalism.
Fundamentalism starts by conceding to modernism's demands and worldview. The only solution is to go back to following Jesus.
Have you read or listened to Paris Reidhead's
Ten Shekels and a Shirt? Reidhead, an avowed fundamentalist, frames that concession in terms of humanism.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 pm
by Valerie
cmbl wrote:Josh wrote:
We can't unless we are willing to abandon fundamentalism, which is really just an early step on the path to liberalism.
Fundamentalism starts by conceding to modernism's demands and worldview. The only solution is to go back to following Jesus.
Have you read or listened to Paris Reidhead's Ten Shekels and a Shirt? Reidhead, an avowed fundamentalist, frames that concession in terms of humanism.
Have you read or listened to Paris Reidhead's Ten Shekels and a Shirt?
I have, it was sent to us by an Amish man, didn't know the author but the writing is astounding- whatever label one has given him-
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:54 pm
by Josh
I find I can comfortably fellowship with a historic premillennialist, rare as they may be these days.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:42 pm
by gcdonner
Josh wrote:I find I can comfortably fellowship with a historic premillennialist, rare as they may be these days.
Me too...
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:25 pm
by MaxPC
KB, there's an entire library of CA perspectives on eschatology at Pilgrim Ministry. Good stuff there and well worth the time to read or listen to. They have downloadable audio files as well as e-literature.
E-literature on Prophecy and End Times
Downloadable Sermons on Prophecy and End Times
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:21 pm
by Josh
A lot of material on this website is explicitly pro-rapture, premillennial, dispensational, or all 3. I would argue that does not represent all or even most Anabaptists.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:12 pm
by Hats Off
Josh wrote:
A lot of material on this website is explicitly pro-rapture, premillennial, dispensational, or all 3. I would argue that does not represent all or even most Anabaptists.
I tried a few of the messages and would have said they seem to be basic Anabaptist.
Re: The End is nigh, right? CA perspectives wanted
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:42 pm
by ken_sylvania
Josh wrote:
A lot of material on this website is explicitly pro-rapture, premillennial, dispensational, or all 3. I would argue that does not represent all or even most Anabaptists.
I think it is probably a fair representation of what is taught in the PMC pulpits. PMC certainly qualifies as Conservative Anabaptist.