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Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:32 am
by Bootstrap
What is the best way for Christians to be a light in the darkness in the wake of events like Charlottesville? White supremacists, white nationalists, and neo-Nazis are often claiming to be Christians, taking America back.

Ronnie Floyd, past president of the Southern Baptist Convention, made this statement:
These protesters do not represent in any form or way the Christian faith or the values followers of Jesus stand for. In fact, white nationalism and white supremacism are anathema to the teachings of Christ, who called us to love and to serve our neighbor—regardless of skin color, gender, or religion—to give up our life for our friends and to even love our enemies.
The Southern Baptist Convention adopted this resolution earlier this year: Resolution on the Anti-Gospel of Alt-Right White Supremacy:
Racism and white supremacy are, sadly, not extinct but present all over the world in various white supremacist movements, sometimes known as ‘white nationalism’ or ‘alt-right.’ The messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention … decry every form of racism, including alt-right white supremacy, as antithetical to the gospel of Jesus Christ…. We denounce and repudiate white supremacy and every form of racial and ethnic hatred as of the devil.
Baptists tend to be more politically involved and "in your face" than Mennonites. But when people are associating racism with conservative Christianity, should we find a way to respond?

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:43 am
by RZehr
Bootstrap wrote: Baptists tend to be more politically involved and "in your face" than Mennonites. But when people are associating racism with conservative Christianity, should we find a way to respond?
I think this is the key statement. If you regularity link, or position yourself with political causes, then you find it incumbent upon yourself to make these kinds of clarifying statements when something negative happens.

If we simply do and live how we ought, and don't become involved in politics and aren't aligned with a political party, then we don't need to make these distancing, or clarifying public statements.

If we find ourselves in the same boat as (politically) conservative Christians, that should be as distasteful as being in the same boat as (politically) liberal Christians.

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm
by MaxPC
RZehr wrote: If you regularity link, or position yourself with political causes, then you find it incumbent upon yourself to make these kinds of clarifying statements when something negative happens.

If we simply do and live how we ought, and don't become involved in politics and aren't aligned with a political party, then we don't need to make these distancing, or clarifying public statements.

If we find ourselves in the same boat as (politically) conservative Christians, that should be as distasteful as being in the same boat as (politically) liberal Christians.
Amen and amen, Rzehr! :up:
I find incessant political natterings to be an overbearing distraction from the study of the Word and simply applying the Word to our lives of discipleship. How much time is wasted on political discussions that can instead be put to use in living for the only authentic Kingdom - Christ's.

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:27 pm
by Bootstrap
MaxPC wrote:I find incessant political natterings to be an overbearing distraction from the study of the Word and simply applying the Word to our lives of discipleship. How much time is wasted on political discussions that can instead be put to use in living for the only authentic Kingdom - Christ's.
Hmmm.

I'm having a hard time thinking that Charlottesville is an example of "incessant political natterings". At the very least, if we take the Beatitudes seriously, this is a time to hunger and thirst for righteousness, to mourn, to show mercy and seek to be peacemakers. I really do think Jesus meant for us to live that out in the real world, and Charlottesville is very much part of that real world. That's why I'm interested in hearing ideas on how to do so.

So how do we best go about that as Christians? Isn't that part of applying the Word to our lives of discipleship?

How about this response?
On behalf of the bishops of the United States, I join leaders from around the nation in condemning the violence and hatred that have now led to one death and multiple injuries in Charlottesville, Virginia,” said Cardinal Daniel DiNardo of Galveston-Houston, President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“We offer our prayers for the family and loved ones of the person who was killed and for all those who have been injured,” DiNardo said. “We join our voices to all those calling for calm.
Are there better responses, or other good responses? What would Jesus do if he were in Charlottesville today? Does anyone know what the Christians in Charlottesville are doing?

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:08 pm
by temporal1
How do Southern Baptists/Baptists differ from MCUSA and/or PCUSA, Methodists, Universalists, etc., in being "politically involved?" style? delivery? possibly fewer university degrees? :?
RZehr wrote: I think this is the key statement.
If you regularity link, or position yourself with political causes, then you find it incumbent upon yourself to make these kinds of clarifying statements when something negative happens.

If we simply do and live how we ought, and don't become involved in politics and aren't aligned with a political party, then we don't need to make these distancing, or clarifying public statements.

If we find ourselves in the same boat as (politically) conservative Christians, that should be as distasteful as being in the same boat as (politically) liberal Christians.
RZehr, i wouldn't have used the word, "distasteful," here, it suggests a "holier-than-thou" position (which i don't believe is intended.) maybe "troubling" would be a better fit (??) .. i believe your point is that we are best to first search within for motivations and accountability (??) ..
What can you do to promote world peace? Go home and love your family.
― Mother Teresa

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:12 pm
by ShantyShaker
One couple I know went and prayer walked through the streets of Charlottesville yesterday (Sunday).

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:20 pm
by RZehr
Maybe troubling would be a better word. :)

We can pray for the ones involved. If I lived in Charlotte, I suppose I would have opportunity to have conversations with people that are involved, perhaps on both sides of the issue. I would invite both sides to be willing to suffer wrongs, instead of fighting for that elusive "justice". Maybe listen to people, lend them my ear.

As it is, I don't really know what there is for me to say that would have any beneficial affect whatsoever on this situation.
I believe that we are most effective and most heard outside the national conversations where there are so many voices yelling that we have difficulty even being heard.
I would rather the spotlight find us for our good deeds, instead of running around to each national incident and trying to inject ourselves into the conversation.

But I'm really not dogmatic on this. I would be slow to criticize anyone trying to help the situation.

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:53 am
by temporal1
RZehr wrote: We can pray for the ones involved.
If I lived in Charlotte, I suppose I would have opportunity to have conversations with people that are involved, perhaps on both sides of the issue.

I would invite both sides to be willing to suffer wrongs,
instead of fighting for that elusive "justice".

Maybe listen to people, lend them my ear.

As it is, I don't really know what there is for me to say that would have any beneficial affect whatsoever on this situation.

I believe that we are most effective and most heard outside the national conversations
where there are so many voices yelling that we have difficulty even being heard.

I would rather the spotlight find us for our good deeds, instead of running around to each national incident and trying to inject ourselves into the conversation.

But I'm really not dogmatic on this.
I would be slow to criticize anyone trying to help the situation.
appreciate all you are contributing.
this crowd appeared to be mostly younger folks, with a lot of youthful exuberance.

i have thought about the young woman killed. esp about how, if only she'd spent the day washing her hair and doing her laundry, she might have had many more Saturdays ahead of her to spend with family+friends. it's not worth it. stay away from crowds that have the potential to turn violent. people often do not behave normally in those situations. don't feed the beasts.

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:25 am
by ken_sylvania
temporal1 wrote: i have thought about the young woman killed. esp about how, if only she'd spent the day washing her hair and doing her laundry, she might have had many more Saturdays ahead of her to spend with family+friends. it's not worth it. stay away from crowds that have the potential to turn violent. people often do not behave normally in those situations. don't feed the beasts.
Many in the early Church were martyred due to their refusal to "go home and stay away from the crowds." They had the good news of salvation and couldn't help but proclaim it, even in the face of violent opposition. Think of Stephen, the first Christian martyr.
I don't know anything about the young woman who was killed or what her reason for being there was, but I don't think that avoiding all conflicting situations is necessarily scriptural. Nor do I think the Scriptures teach that we should all go and seek to interject ourselves into conflicts like this.

Re: Charlottesville

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:04 am
by PeterG
RZehr wrote:If you regularity link, or position yourself with political causes, then you find it incumbent upon yourself to make these kinds of clarifying statements when something negative happens.

If we simply do and live how we ought, and don't become involved in politics and aren't aligned with a political party, then we don't need to make these distancing, or clarifying public statements.

If we find ourselves in the same boat as (politically) conservative Christians, that should be as distasteful as being in the same boat as (politically) liberal Christians.
This is very well said, and I agree. I'll add that we shouldn't be shy about the truth just because it might be related to someone's political position. We shouldn't necessarily go around making unsolicited proclamations about, say, abortion or white nationalism, but there's a time to be clear about what's right and what's wrong.

We must also acknowledge that for decades conservative Anabaptists (myself included) have demonstrated a pattern of affinity toward right-wing politics. I'm hopeful that we're in the process of extricating ourselves from this mess (and I've seen positive signs, especially since last year's election campaign), but in the meantime we might need to be more proactive about rejecting things like white nationalism. These kinds of ideas are more attractive to some of our people than we'd like to admit; I've seen it among my students.