Paul wrote:Valerie wrote:Paul, I agree after this life we don't get second chances-BUT what is meant then by "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is eight souls, were saved through water"
The explanation that you were given and shared makes it sound like this was referring to Him before His incarnation, preaching-
but it says "For this reason, the gospel was preached also to those wo are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit-
Both of those passages seem to convey when Christ descended to the dead & I always heard, that was after He was crucified- during the time period before He rose-
What you just shard is similar to what our present Pastor shared- that this 'descension' and preaching took place during the period of the Old Covenant when He would manifest Himself as you convey- that was a new explanation to me- also Pastor Begg considred the 'spirits' to be angels which I hadn't heard that before either-
I consider that as soon as Christ yielded up His Spirit, on the Cross- that one of the astounding things that happened according to Matthew 27:52,53- that"and the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many"
Not sure if this ties in at all with this- anyway- just had been perplexed by the more recent explanation- and wondered if it was ever preached elsewhere- I don't recall our former pastor of 20 years speaking about it- probably being unsure.
I think you are mixing up two seperate Scriptures, I think the Scripture in 1 Peter 4 is in a completely different context:
1 Peter 4:3-6 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Dead in this context means dead in sin, spiritually dead. The Gospel is preached to those that are spiritually dead, which is a judgment to all flesh, so that they might live according to God in the spirit. Just curious, is your pastor Alistair Begg? I really enjoyed watching some of his sermons, if it's him, you must be very blessed to have him as your pastor!
In my reading, since Apostle Peter mentioned 'the dead' in chapter 4- and the spirits in Chapter 3:'by whom He went and preached to the spirits in prison'- they seem to be tied together-
Once I bought my Orthodox Study Bible- the footnote for vs 1 Peter 4:6 says "The dead are most likely those preached "in prison" in Hades (3:19. Although that footnote didn't claim to know for sure- it connects the two- also consider Ephesians 4:8, 9: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it
but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
So to me it is all tying in together that He went & preached in Hades, or the lower parts of the earth- and I suppose what Haithabu shared is what I align to as well- and yes I agree with all that this is not implying there are second chances under the New Covenant- after death- but there is that reference to Noah's time in all this too- so I wouldn't rule out since those who died in Noah's time did not die under the New Covenant possibility of Christ's atonement as 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: that perhaps this is why Jesus went to 'preach' to the spirits in prison (hades)
Also, I don't know- the righteous- were they not already with God? If not, when Moses & Elijah met with Jesus, Peter, James & John on the Mount of Transfiguration- they were not in Hades, and this was before the Crucifixion-
By the way Paul, yes we are attending Pastor Begg's Church presently- we needed to have 'peace' for awhile in a Church where we were not feeling like we had to sift through so much new teachings that we've been exposed to over the last 10 years- we have benefited from his teachings for a long time & since it is not too far (distance) it's a great place for us presently. I really didn't long to be in such a large congregation though- but there are ways to 'get connected' but when a congregation is that large, it is difficult to say "he is 'my' pastor- because the flock is so large- it's like the multitudes Jesus would preach to at times- you know? I assume he is approachable (I've heard) if need be-