Church Attendance

General Christian Theology
temporal1
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by temporal1 »

RZehr wrote:My observation is that as convictions grow, the less beneficial it becomes to be part of an unsatisfactory church. I'm not answering your question, just perhaps adding to the subject.
do you see a difference between attending/visiting a church as opposed to seeking membership?
maybe Once Again will mention if this is part of her question (?) ..

at this moment, i'm attending Catholic masses with my family. honestly, i never anticipated attending Catholic masses ever in my life, but, i do now. this priest's homilies are always Bible-centered, and he communicates in a way that is inviting and approachable. i'm grateful for the experience.
Hats Off wrote:We advised Lucy in Northern Ireland to attend a local church rather than attempt to worship alone.
We suggested a Gospel Hall which was less than 5 minutes walk from her home.

:arrow: I would always recommend that you know what you believe so that you can leave those things which don't feel right.

We have no experience with this ourselves so can only express an opinion.
but I feel brotherhood and church fellowship are more important than many of the smaller details.
this is the overall message i've gleaned from this forum. it puts me at ease about church attendance.

definitely, when i listen to these Catholic homilies, i'm listening from the perspective of what i've come to believe in my life. i don't feel i know in full, but, neither do i feel i'm a beginner in faith and scriptures. this helps me understand the homily points with more depth.

i'm undecided about church membership with a church i cannot deeply accept .. i have not ever done this. but i may be in error to hold back. i'm not sure. i can be skittish about membership. i was "pretty old" before i was able to embrace church membership, but, when i did, it was a joyful thing for a number of years.

in the past, Robert compared church membership with marriage. i like this analogy, altho i might not carry it to the full extent he might (??) not sure. you don't marry "just anyone." :-|

this is my experience, not suggesting it reflects anything beyond that. :)
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cmbl
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by cmbl »

RZehr wrote:My observation is that as convictions grow, the less beneficial it becomes to be part of an unsatisfactory church.
I agree with this.

When I was in college, I chose to drive an hour each way to a Beachy church rather than stay in an evangelical Protestant setting. As far as false teaching, I would avoid a church that teaches eternal security. But I say that as someone who could travel an hour each way. There's a world of difference between "an hour each way" and nothing at all.

Like RZehr, "I'm not answering your question, just perhaps adding to the subject."
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Sunbeam
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Sunbeam »

I would choose a church that came as close to supporting my beliefs as I could find and at least attend there if not join.
We can learn things from others. We do not have a corner on the truth market in our anabaptist churches, even if we are sincerely wishing to do what God wants us to do. God has chosen to work through the church with all her imperfections and flaws. Serving God shoulder to shoulder with these flawed people helps to purify us.
I would definitely go over staying home.

ETA: I myself would be contributing to that flawed environment. I did not mean to insinuate I would be a lily struggling to bloom in a bed of thorns.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Bootstrap wrote:
Once Again wrote:I'm interested in hearing people's opinions at what point they would leave a church that is going astray from Biblical teachings. A discussion of which groups fit in the kingdom christian category is a good topic, but I'd like to keep that discussion separate from this one.
Sorry if I missed your point, Laura.

I'm not sure I have a black and white answer to your question. I am a member of a conservative Presbyterian church where people are really serving other people and take the Bible very seriously, but the theology is more Calvinist than I am comfortable with, and though we take a hard stand against gay sex, we remain part of a denomination that does not. When I joined, I was very clear that my theology is not Calvinist, and they had no problem with that. And they aren't hard line Calvinist, that would have been impossible for me. I think the hardest thing for me is that they baptize infants, they have a covenant understanding of infant baptism, and I think that strays from biblical teaching.

To me, having the right theological answers to every question really isn't at the heart of biblical faith. I feel like I am in a place where I can serve God, and that is more important to me. There are people with prison ministries, building Habitat houses, traveling to the Congo to foster a university and seminary there, providing free medical care at a clinic, mentoring missionaries, and raising support for a variety of missions. I am coordinating our work with two Syrian refugee families and teaching Sunday School, and there are people who can help me discern some other things I feel called to do right now that are in an earlier phase.

I can only join a church that takes the Bible seriously as our guide for life and faith. But I can be part of a church with some understandings I disagree with. There's a level of twisting that I could not tolerate, like the twisting people use to justify gay marriage or politicized right-wing activism. I suppose I look for a church that is mostly about the things the New Testament is mostly about, and a church I can grow in. And I look for a church where at least a significant number of people are taking their discipleship seriously.
Boot - considering this is still at least technically a Mennonite site, the inevitable question does come to mind - I take it the above bolded doesn't include infant baptism? 8-)
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Bootstrap
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Bootstrap »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:There's a level of twisting that I could not tolerate, like the twisting people use to justify gay marriage or politicized right-wing activism. I suppose I look for a church that is mostly about the things the New Testament is mostly about, and a church I can grow in. And I look for a church where at least a significant number of people are taking their discipleship seriously.
Boot - considering this is still at least technically a Mennonite site, the inevitable question does come to mind - I take it the above bolded doesn't include infant baptism? 8-)
You put your finger on a hard one. I am really uncomfortable with infant baptism. I'm also pretty convinced that this church is where God wants me right now.
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Dan Z
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Dan Z »

A friend of mine used to say: "It's amazing what a man, left to himself, will eventually believe."

I've found this to be true both through personal experience and through interacting with others. We need interaction with others of "like precious faith" to remain grounded, challenged, and accountable. Sure...don't fellowship with an Apostate church. But...it seems that there is real danger in being ones own church - so, if an ideal fellowship is not nearby, at least find an "imperfect" fellowship of believers with whom you have much in common so they can spur you on to good works and keep you from running "off the rails" in your thinking and beliefs.
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Valerie
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Valerie »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
Once Again wrote:I'm interested in hearing people's opinions at what point they would leave a church that is going astray from Biblical teachings. A discussion of which groups fit in the kingdom christian category is a good topic, but I'd like to keep that discussion separate from this one.
Sorry if I missed your point, Laura.

I'm not sure I have a black and white answer to your question. I am a member of a conservative Presbyterian church where people are really serving other people and take the Bible very seriously, but the theology is more Calvinist than I am comfortable with, and though we take a hard stand against gay sex, we remain part of a denomination that does not. When I joined, I was very clear that my theology is not Calvinist, and they had no problem with that. And they aren't hard line Calvinist, that would have been impossible for me. I think the hardest thing for me is that they baptize infants, they have a covenant understanding of infant baptism, and I think that strays from biblical teaching.

To me, having the right theological answers to every question really isn't at the heart of biblical faith. I feel like I am in a place where I can serve God, and that is more important to me. There are people with prison ministries, building Habitat houses, traveling to the Congo to foster a university and seminary there, providing free medical care at a clinic, mentoring missionaries, and raising support for a variety of missions. I am coordinating our work with two Syrian refugee families and teaching Sunday School, and there are people who can help me discern some other things I feel called to do right now that are in an earlier phase.

I can only join a church that takes the Bible seriously as our guide for life and faith. But I can be part of a church with some understandings I disagree with. There's a level of twisting that I could not tolerate, like the twisting people use to justify gay marriage or politicized right-wing activism. I suppose I look for a church that is mostly about the things the New Testament is mostly about, and a church I can grow in. And I look for a church where at least a significant number of people are taking their discipleship seriously.
Boot - considering this is still at least technically a Mennonite site, the inevitable question does come to mind - I take it the above bolded doesn't include infant baptism? 8-)
It shouldn't, since the Apostles taught to baptize infants of Christian parents, and the Apostles were taught by Christ and the Holy Spirit- that isn't twisting Scripture or Apostasy to baptize infants- which is why Luther and others knew to continue to practice this- as well as weekly communion (which to not do that, would be considered a form of apostacy)
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Hats Off
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Hats Off »

Valerie wrote: It shouldn't, since the Apostles taught to baptize infants of Christian parents, and the Apostles were taught by Christ and the Holy Spirit- that isn't twisting Scripture or Apostasy to baptize infants- which is why Luther and others knew to continue to practice this- as well as weekly communion (which to not do that, would be considered a form of apostacy)
Sorry, Valerie but you are definitely wrong on this one! Infants cannot believe. Scripture does not tell us how often to take communion. You do not seem to be very teachable on this matter.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Bootstrap »

I don't find infant baptism biblical. Before I joined, I was clear with the pastors about the places that my theology is not the same as theirs. They mentioned that there are quite a few people in the church that see it the same way I do. But it's hard when they baptize an infant, I find that awkward. Quietly and respectfully.
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Valerie
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Re: Church Attendance

Post by Valerie »

Hats Off wrote:
Valerie wrote: It shouldn't, since the Apostles taught to baptize infants of Christian parents, and the Apostles were taught by Christ and the Holy Spirit- that isn't twisting Scripture or Apostasy to baptize infants- which is why Luther and others knew to continue to practice this- as well as weekly communion (which to not do that, would be considered a form of apostacy)
Sorry, Valerie but you are definitely wrong on this one! Infants cannot believe. Scripture does not tell us how often to take communion. You do not seem to be very teachable on this matter.
No offense Hats Off, but you cannot be sure the Apostles didn't teach to baptize infants so you cannot be sure I am wrong on this one- and I have been teachable on this, as I was on headcovering- and other things- I have been led to believe in infant baptism by understanding it, understanding more about baptism, and realizing not every single thing the Apostles taught they 'fully' instructed by the Bible- it was the early church writers and fathers that stated it as a fact that the Apostles taught it (and indeed, in every country the Apostles took the Gospel, Christian parents baptize their infants). No one of course from the Reformation era, was there to know one way or the other- I was just as sure 'against' it, as you all still are, but I have been teachable, to now believe in it.
The fact that you admit that Scripture doesn't say how often to take communion, admits that some things were not clear about what the Church did- but history of the early Church has conveyed that it was done every single week and sometimes more. That is a fact- I am not sure how different Protestant groups eventually were led to make it either once a week, every other week, once a month, or in the case of Anabaptists, twice a year- but that certainly was not done that way by the Church that Jesus started, the records will reveal that.
So if we can make up our own doctrine or practices, then- because the Apostles didn't write everything down- so be it- but you cannot say for certain what was and what was not done- and those who believe in infant baptism is because the Apostles taught it, and Scriptures do not state otherwise. In fact, Jesus had more to say about the little ones faith than the big ones. He used them as examples. Truly, it is a work of the Holy Spirit that I didn't understand before to the depth that I looked into it to learn, so really I was teachable, and was willing to be corrected on it.
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