Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

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Josh
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Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Josh »

When the scriptures were being read in church last weekend, this passage caught my ear.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
What's going on here? Jesus doesn't link eternal punishment or eternal life to be at all linked in believing in him, or believing in some kind of grace, and the judgment described here is set in the future (i.e. after his death and resurrection, and indeed after our present day.)

Instead, he seems to be dividing those who inherit eternal life vs those who inherit eternal punishment based on one's treatment of the hungry, thirsty, strangers, naked, sick, and prisoners.
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lesterb
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by lesterb »

Josh wrote:When the scriptures were being read in church last weekend, this passage caught my ear.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another like a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of mine, you did it for me.’

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not receive me as a guest, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not give you whatever you needed?’ Then he will answer them, ‘I tell you the truth, just as you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for me.’ And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
What's going on here? Jesus doesn't link eternal punishment or eternal life to be at all linked in believing in him, or believing in some kind of grace, and the judgment described here is set in the future (i.e. after his death and resurrection, and indeed after our present day.)

Instead, he seems to be dividing those who inherit eternal life vs those who inherit eternal punishment based on one's treatment of the hungry, thirsty, strangers, naked, sick, and prisoners.
I've pondered that too. But if you compare judgment scene passages you see that there is a second part to all of this, where they examine the Book of Life. If your name is not in that book you are then cast into the lake of fire. Perhaps the first part of the judgment is to show you why your name is or isn't in the Book of Life? People who's name are in there would have works like these if they were living for Christ. I still don't believe that we can simply try to imitate those works and get to heaven. The Book of Life is the final appeal, not the works you have or haven't done.
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by LJones »

I think that saying that salvation is either by grace OR works is a wrong approach. Perhaps we are to cooperate with the Grace of God for our salvation? That would include Grace AND Works AND Growth AND Everything else. (Admittedly this carries a little bit of a difference in how you view the atonement of Christ). It always seemed strange to me to think that I had to get some kind of legal standing with God correct and suddenly I was ok. As if salvation is just getting your paperwork straightened out. This begs the question, what does it really mean to be "in Christ." What does that look like? How is it gained? What will I be like when I am there?
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Sunbeam
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Sunbeam »

There are numerous places where the Bible specifies what we will be judged by...our words, our works. We will be judged by how we judged. We will be judged by our forgiveness of others, or lack thereof...are there others?

We are saved by our faith in Jesus, but the Bible is clear that faith without works is dead....
There is such a thing as works without faith, but there is no such thing as faith without works.

Am I right?
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Bootstrap »

Sunbeam wrote:There is such a thing as works without faith, but there is no such thing as faith without works.
Very well said. And I think this is probably correct biblical theology.
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by cmbl »

Sunbeam wrote:There are numerous places where the Bible specifies what we will be judged by...our words, our works. We will be judged by how we judged. We will be judged by our forgiveness of others, or lack thereof...are there others?
Other judgment scenes that come to mind include Matthew 13, where the "evil" are separated from the "righteous", and Matthew 7:21-27, in which those who heard "these words of [Jesus]," i.e. the Sermon on the Mount, and did them were like the wise man, in contrast to those who heard, but did not do "these words".

Matthew 7 is quite similar to Matthew 25 in that a group of people calls Jesus Lord only to hear him say "depart from me."
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by haithabu »

I think your reading of the passage depends on what you believe Jesus means by "the least of these my brethren".

Are these all the poor and marginalized or some other group such as the Jews or Christians? Either of the latter two possibilities would be consistent with God's promise to Abraham (and by extension, to the great nation which God would make of his descendants) that God would bless those who bless him and curse those curse him.

There is only one other passage that I know of where Jesus refers to anyone as his brother and it is this:
And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.
Matthew 12:49,50

So to me the balance of probabilities is that Jesus is referring to his disciples and therefore the basis of salvation being described here is not how people treat the poor but how and whether people receive Jesus' disciples (and by implication) their message.

This identification of Jesus with his disciples is consistent with Matthew 10, in which he said, "He who receives you receives Me" and also relates peoples' reception of them to their reward or judgment. If you read all of Matthew 10 you can see other parallels between it and the "sheep and goats" passage - namely that the disciples are being sent out without reserves of food or clothing, that they will be thirsty and end up in prison..
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Sudsy
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Sudsy »

haithabu wrote: So to me the balance of probabilities is that Jesus is referring to his disciples and therefore the basis of salvation being described here is not how people treat the poor but how and whether people receive Jesus' disciples (and by implication) their message.

This identification of Jesus with his disciples is consistent with Matthew 10, in which he said, "He who receives you receives Me" and also relates peoples' reception of them to their reward or judgment. If you read all of Matthew 10 you can see other parallels between it and the "sheep and goats" passage - namely that the disciples are being sent out without reserves of food or clothing, that they will be thirsty and end up in prison..
This would be my view also. Some have used this text to support, for instance, their prison ministries (which is no doubt a good field of ministry) but I do think Jesus was referring to how His immediate disciples were going to be treated when thrown into prison. A receiving of the Gospel as truth results in actions of caring for other brothers and sisters in God's family. When this caring is made for the family, they are actions made unto the Lord. I don't see this as supporting a 'social gospel' as some do but rather some examples of what it means to receive Christ that results in actions of love for other brothers and sisters in the Lord.
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Josh
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Josh »

Regardless of the specifics, there is a clear link between works and salvation in this passage and NONE between grace and salvation.

I'm fairly certain Jesus wouldn't be allowed to preach on present day evangelical circles.
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Re: Did Jesus teach salvation by works?

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:Regardless of the specifics, there is a clear link between works and salvation in this passage and NONE between grace and salvation.

I'm fairly certain Jesus wouldn't be allowed to preach on present day evangelical circles.
Another blanket statement on evangelicals ? I agree Jesus did not preach on grace. However, His replacement on earth spoke through the apostles a great deal about grace. This replacement, the Holy Spirit, is a continuation of what Jesus would have preached if He had bodily remained. Do you believe that ?

In most evangelical circles I have been around, imo, Jesus would be welcomed to preach although as He did with the churches in the Revelation, I think He would have both praise and rebuke for some practises we do. This, I'm fairly certain, would be the same in non-evangelical circles.
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