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I was listening to a Christian radio broadcast, driving through Kentucky, when a woman talked about "white knuckled obedience, trying to obey Jesus on our own power, afraid that we might not be doing it well enough". She urged us to let God work good works of obedience in us, letting go and letting him do the work, relying fully on his work of grace. I think she is right. Cheap grace and easy believism are real heresies, but so is trying to obey by our own strength instead of God's grace. If we are not living by Christ who lives within us, we're missing the point.

I think some Christians can forget that grace is central to our walk, and live as though it were all about our own works and superior understandings and doctrines and practices. That's dangerous. If grace is not central, we're on the wrong path. Some Christians are effectively walking in denial of grace.

If grace is not central, we're on the wrong path.

Amen !

Proverbs 3:5-7 - The Voice (VOICE)

5 Place your trust in the Eternal; rely on Him completely;
never depend upon your own ideas and inventions.
6 Give Him the credit for everything you accomplish,
and He will smooth out and straighten the road that lies ahead.
7 And don’t think you can decide on your own what is right and what is wrong.
Respect the Eternal; turn and run from evil.

I'll wade in...

It's difficult to say where this is coming from without knowing the woman, her background, her experiences, and her fruits. That said, I have misgivings about this idea of "letting go" and "letting God" do the work.

Would you be willing to be more specific about the "some Christians" you think are effectively walking in denial of grace?

cmbl wrote:I'll wade in...

It's difficult to say where this is coming from without knowing the woman, her background, her experiences, and her fruits. That said, I have misgivings about this idea of "letting go" and "letting God" do the work.

I don't know the woman - she had a convincing Kentucky accent (my mother lives in Kentucky), spoke with warmth and wisdom, and was more personal than scholarly. I don't remember her name and I know nothing about her life.

But doesn't the Bible repeatedly tell us not to trust in our own wisdom and strength and doing? Doesn't Paul tell us things like this?

For through the law I died to the law so that I may live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!

What misgivings do you have, and why? What are you concerned about?

cmbl wrote:Would you be willing to be more specific about the "some Christians" you think are effectively walking in denial of grace?

I know that I need constant reminders that the Christian walk is all about walking by God's wisdom, power, and grace, not by my own doing. A friend of mine who does Christian social work told me about a time that God reminded her that God already sent the world a savior, and it wasn't her.

My aim is not to insult or attack any particular group of Christians, but to invite us all to reflect. I'm largely opposed to the style of biblical teaching that focuses on "those other people", I think we should study the Bible primarily to apply it to ourselves.

For me, and it is a constant struggle, 'letting go and letting God' means that I quit trying to serve the Lord in my own stength and ideas. That doesn't mean I am to sit back and expect God to push me into obedience and doing His will. I believe, if we are listening for the Holy Spirit's direction and are willing to be controlled (continuously filled) by the Spirit, this is 'letting go and letting God' use us as a means of doing His will. If our walk with God is just a determined, dogged striving to obey on whatever strength we have in the natural, then for people like me, it would be quite unfair and impossible. But through grace, the unmerited gift of God's enabling supernatural power, through the Holy Spirit, all believers can be 'more than conquerors through Him who loves us'.

When discipleship is a struggle for me, it is when I am not believing and trusting in the power of the Holy Spirit available to come along side and show me the way that I should go. It boils down to a personal walk with God through the Spirit or an attempt at serving God through my own ability to serve and obey.

Actually, Kingdom living is meant to be an abundant life of 'righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit'. If these are not abundant in my life, I know I'm not living the Kingdom way of life but living rather according to the flesh.

'His grace has brought me safe thus far and grace will lead me home' - from Amazing Grace

Bootstrap wrote:I was listening to a Christian radio broadcast, driving through Kentucky, when a woman talked about "white knuckled obedience, trying to obey Jesus on our own power, afraid that we might not be doing it well enough". She urged us to let God work good works of obedience in us, letting go and letting him do the work, relying fully on his work of grace. I think she is right. Cheap grace and easy believism are real heresies, but so is trying to obey by our own strength instead of God's grace. If we are not living by Christ who lives within us, we're missing the point.

I think some Christians can forget that grace is central to our walk, and live as though it were all about our own works and superior understandings and doctrines and practices. That's dangerous. If grace is not central, we're on the wrong path. Some Christians are effectively walking in denial of grace.

I would agree with this, but it also seems that living in victory also takes some personal effort. Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commands. I had a friend who was an alcoholic, a drug addict, and a chain smoker when he became a Christian. He said that God took away his desires for alcohol and drugs immediately. They just dropped out of his life. That was certainly grace. But six month's later God convicted him about his smoking. But that was a real struggle for him. He came out victorious, so that was God's grace too, because his own strength wouldn't have cut it. But I'm always a bit uneasy about people like you were listening to, Boot. What does it mean to let God do the work? I'd rather say that God gives the strength to do what he asks us to do. The other tends to be a pretty nonchalant way of approaching life.

Bootstrap wrote: What misgivings do you have, and why? What are you concerned about?

I'd say my misgivings are similar to Lester's. In particular, I think the NT repeatedly urges us to strive, give diligence, make every effort, etc. I don't think that means white-knuckled obedience, but neither do I find it compatible with the passivity inherent in "letting go and letting God." 'Let go and let God' sounds to me like nice-sounding, trite "pop theology."

My aim is not to insult or attack any particular group of Christians, but to invite us all to reflect. I'm largely opposed to the style of biblical teaching that focuses on "those other people", I think we should study the Bible primarily to apply it to ourselves.

cmbl wrote:

Bootstrap wrote: What misgivings do you have, and why? What are you concerned about?

I'd say my misgivings are similar to Lester's. In particular, I think the NT repeatedly urges us to strive, give diligence, make every effort, etc. I don't think that means white-knuckled obedience, but neither do I find it compatible with the passivity inherent in "letting go and letting God." 'Let go and let God' sounds to me like nice-sounding, trite "pop theology."

I agree that we are also called to strive - but there are probably just as many texts telling us to leave things in God's hands, trust in him, etc. It sounds like a paradox, but I think both halves are essential. And I think it's easy to focus on just one half of the equation.

Bootstrap wrote: I agree that we are also called to strive - but there are probably just as many texts telling us to leave things in God's hands, trust in him, etc. It sounds like a paradox, but I think both halves are essential. And I think it's easy to focus on just one half of the equation.

And typically I will focus on one half while Sudsy will focus on the other half, even when we agree that that both halves are essential. It is simply a function of who we are - we both need to focus on the other half of the equation as well.

Hats Off wrote:

Bootstrap wrote: I agree that we are also called to strive - but there are probably just as many texts telling us to leave things in God's hands, trust in him, etc. It sounds like a paradox, but I think both halves are essential. And I think it's easy to focus on just one half of the equation.

And typically I will focus on one half while Sudsy will focus on the other half, even when we agree that that both halves are essential. It is simply a function of who we are - we both need to focus on the other half of the equation as well.

That's why we need each other.