The Israeli state?

[joshuabgood]

"Political Zionism and Christian Zionism are anathema to Christian faith ... The true Israel today is neither Jews nor Israelis, but believers in the Messiah, even if they are Gentiles ..."

Agree or disagree?

[Ken]

"Political Zionism and Christian Zionism are anathema to Christian faith ... The true Israel today is neither Jews nor Israelis, but believers in the Messiah, even if they are Gentiles ..."

Agree or disagree?

Disagree. I don't think they are an anathema to Christian faith, just irrelevant to it.

Political Zionism is a political movement not a religious movement. I don't actually know what Christian Zionism is other than a description of those fringe groups of conservative Christians who want to literally create the narrative from Revelations by supporting Political Zionism.

Either way, neither of them have much if anything to do with Christianity. Which is not a political movement. Personally I view what you are calling Christian Zionists the same way I view the millennial types who are predicting the date of the second coming. They are always wrong and always best ignored.

[Josh]

"Political Zionism and Christian Zionism are anathema to Christian faith ... The true Israel today is neither Jews nor Israelis, but believers in the Messiah, even if they are Gentiles ..."

Agree or disagree?

Agree… but I like to be a tad cautious before denouncing Zionism as “anathema”, as part of Zionism was simply the desire of Jewish people to find a home. Whilst as Christians, we wouldn’t want to kick people out of a country to take it over for ourselves, I would try to show a little sensitivity for the longing of many Jewish people for a homeland.

There are many Israelis today who would like to peacefully coexist with Palestinians.

With that said, I think we can denounce the “political” part of Zionism and raise the question if, as believers, we should be advocating for these kind of political movements at all. Instead we should be trying to lead both Jews and Palestinians to Christ, and also engaging in acts of mercy for people who are suffering - such as Gazans and Israelis.

[Robert]

Israel is not an Israelite state, but I Jewish state. Many Jews claim it home because of historical times that Israelites lived there. They are the decedents of the Israelites.

I am a Zionist. I believe the Jewish people should have a home and make a state out of it. I am glad they do not restrict it to only Jews, but allow others to live there if they choose.

I am sure I would do things differently if I was running Israel, but I am not and I must accept how they choose to run it. I am not so opposed to the structure of the Israel state that I feel the need to disassociate, although I am not associated with it in any way that I am aware of now.

[RZehr]

I like Ken’s, and Josh’s, and Robert’s answers.

[ohio jones]

The true Israel today is neither Jews nor Israelis, but believers in the Messiah, even if they are Gentiles ..."

If I were writing this, I would say "The true Israel is believers in the Messiah, whether they are Jews, Israelis, or Gentiles."
1. Deleting "today" because this is not new; it's even present in shadowy form in the Old Testament.
2. Removing the insinuation that Jews or Israelis are not part of true Israel; they can be, but on the same terms as anyone else.

[Josh]

Israel is not an Israelite state, but I Jewish state. Many Jews claim it home because of historical times that Israelites lived there. They are the decedents of the Israelites.

I am a Zionist. I believe the Jewish people should have a home and make a state out of it. I am glad they do not restrict it to only Jews, but allow others to live there if they choose.

I am sure I would do things differently if I was running Israel, but I am not and I must accept how they choose to run it. I am not so opposed to the structure of the Israel state that I feel the need to disassociate, although I am not associated with it in any way that I am aware of now.

An obvious question is if this same concern for various ethnic groups to have a home and make a state of it extends to other people. Israel is run as an effective apartheid state where Jews have far more rights than non-Jews, regardless of citizenship.

[Nomad]

The true Israel today is neither Jews nor Israelis, but believers in the Messiah, even if they are Gentiles ..."

If I were writing this, I would say "The true Israel is believers in the Messiah, whether they are Jews, Israelis, or Gentiles."
1. Deleting "today" because this is not new; it's even present in shadowy form in the Old Testament.
2. Removing the insinuation that Jews or Israelis are not part of true Israel; they can be, but on the same terms as anyone else.

"Shadowy form"? Care to elaborate?

[Robert]

An obvious question is if this same concern for various ethnic groups to have a home and make a state of it extends to other people. Israel is run as an effective apartheid state where Jews have far more rights than non-Jews, regardless of citizenship.

As do Muslim, Chinese, and many African states.

Citizens of Israel have equal rights, as in the US, no matter their ethnicity. Because they are the majority, their voice is stronger, but the individual citizen has the same rights. I am sure there are areas of work that need to be done, just as in the US.

[Josh]

An obvious question is if this same concern for various ethnic groups to have a home and make a state of it extends to other people. Israel is run as an effective apartheid state where Jews have far more rights than non-Jews, regardless of citizenship.

As do Muslim, Chinese, and many African states.

Citizens of Israel have equal rights, as in the US, no matter their ethnicity. Because they are the majority, their voice is stronger, but the individual citizen has the same rights. I am sure there are areas of work that need to be done, just as in the US.

Arab citizens in Israel definitely do not have equal rights. Not even close.

And more to the point, Israel claims control over the territory of the West Bank yet grants the people stuck living there almost no rights (including no right to vote). The end result of this is a minority gets to decide who wins elections, with the resulting undemocratic rule.

I used to believe like you did until I worked for a business there and regularly travelled there, and saw how poorly Arab citizens are treated. They are second class citizens. Palestinians are third class.