Works of the flesh observations

[Sudsy]

In Gal 5:19-21 NKJV

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This thread is to talk about some of the works of the flesh that perhaps don't seem to get the attention that others do and in a poll to chose which 2 do you think need more attention.

This list is from the NKJV version but I will add some other version descriptions beside these. I will leave out drukenness and murders as we only have room for 15.

Have at it with or without comments regarding your choice.

[steve-in-kville]

On a church level, or just in general society?

[Sudsy]

Dissensions - implies strife or discord and stresses a division into factions. Sounds to me like what has happened to many Anabaptists. Perhaps the most fragmented group in church history.

The city and vicinity where I live in southern Ontario has many Mennonite groups that at some point in time appear to have broken away to 'do church' their way and most all of them have not broken the ethnic barrier. Those that have been more accommodating and broken this ethnic, closed fellowship understanding of a local church would be considered by many as going 'liberal' or 'worldly'.

Dissensions are bound to occur, imo, when a church is more about themselves than it is about a lost and dying world. Dissension is a major tool of satan to make us ineffective in promoting His Kingdom. I have seen it occur too in non-Anabaptist groups even when they are a soul winning church. Satan has his ways of getting his foot in the door and interfering with advancing the Kingdom.

It is amazing to me what the issue or issues are when some churches split. How satan can get Christians to dis-fellowship over the style of a head cover or using zippers over buttons is mind blowing.

[Sudsy]

On a church level, or just in general society?

This letter was to a church, so these characteristics are ones that represent behaviours that can show up in a church when they are living according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit.

[steve-in-kville]

Jealousies and fornication rate up there in my opinion. Even in the church, people seem to get envious over some strange things.

[RZehr]

Dissensions - implies strife or discord and stresses a division into factions. Sounds to me like what has happened to many Anabaptists. Perhaps the most fragmented group in church history.

The city and vicinity where I live in southern Ontario has many Mennonite groups that at some point in time appear to have broken away to 'do church' their way and most all of them have not broken the ethnic barrier. Those that have been more accommodating and broken this ethnic, closed fellowship understanding of a local church would be considered by many as going 'liberal' or 'worldly'.

Dissensions are bound to occur, imo, when a church is more about themselves than it is about a lost and dying world. Dissension is a major tool of satan to make us ineffective in promoting His Kingdom. I have seen it occur too in non-Anabaptist groups even when they are a soul winning church. Satan has his ways of getting his foot in the door and interfering with advancing the Kingdom.

It is amazing to me what the issue or issues are when some churches split. How satan can get Christians to dis-fellowship over the style of a head cover or using zippers over buttons is mind blowing.

I find it bafflingly incoherent when I hear folks say that the local church isn’t terribly important to be a part of, and freelancing oneself through life without a church is fine, and they emphasize being part of the “invisible/universal” church; and then they turn around and express concern and dismay at the people who are forming small church groups. Is church important or not?
What gives? If the universal invisible church is really all that is important, aren’t these small groups part of that? To be part of the invisible church does one have to be part of no church at all, or what?

[Sudsy]

Dissensions - implies strife or discord and stresses a division into factions. Sounds to me like what has happened to many Anabaptists. Perhaps the most fragmented group in church history.

The city and vicinity where I live in southern Ontario has many Mennonite groups that at some point in time appear to have broken away to 'do church' their way and most all of them have not broken the ethnic barrier. Those that have been more accommodating and broken this ethnic, closed fellowship understanding of a local church would be considered by many as going 'liberal' or 'worldly'.

Dissensions are bound to occur, imo, when a church is more about themselves than it is about a lost and dying world. Dissension is a major tool of satan to make us ineffective in promoting His Kingdom. I have seen it occur too in non-Anabaptist groups even when they are a soul winning church. Satan has his ways of getting his foot in the door and interfering with advancing the Kingdom.

It is amazing to me what the issue or issues are when some churches split. How satan can get Christians to dis-fellowship over the style of a head cover or using zippers over buttons is mind blowing.

I find it bafflingly incoherent when I hear folks say that the local church isn’t terribly important to be a part of, and freelancing oneself through life without a church is fine, and they emphasize being part of the “invisible/universal” church; and then they turn around and express concern and dismay at the people who are forming small church groups. Is church important or not?
What gives? If the universal invisible church is really all that is important, aren’t these small groups part of that? To be part of the invisible church does one have to be part of no church at all, or what?

I believe many today are still 'doing' church' but rather than the traditional way where people had to physically gather together they find they get more fellowship on things such as these forums and all the access that is available today to listen to your favourite preacher(s) on TV and/or the Internet.

However, in my own experience, I have tried this 'stay at home' method but have returned to a fellowship of believers in a building, as for me, there was a certain physical presence missing in this type of fellowship. Some have done this through small groups and meet in houses where they find they can grow together without the 'big church' expectations that some have to 'belong' to their church.

We have a group of older saints from our local MB church that meet together where they are more comfortable with 'doing church' in a less modern, worship band style. In whatever group size, the scripture reads that Jesus is with us wherever two or three are gathered together in His name and we should not forsake gathering together. So, I agree the universal church is not a replacement for the local church but rather is the term used to say that 'The Church', when it comes to salvation, is not limited to any group of man created denominations or fellowships or whatever they chose to call themselves.

I believe the challenge is always there, whether small or huge church gatherings, to still be a group of believers who are keen on growing the universal church of Jesus followers. And a small house church setting can evangelize and draw people into their group and when it gets too large break off into another house church group.

I think there is a big difference in splitting off into small or large church groups due to group expansion caused by reaching the lost than splitting off due to slight doctrinal differences and/or required group practises. The latter I believe Paul warned us about.

Today we have both a 'computer church' and a 'physical church' opportunity and this 'computer church' fellowship gives me much more to consider about what is going on in the 'universal church'. More of a picture of how within the universal church there are so many varied doctrines and practises that have developed primarily using the same text Book.

But as scripture says we now see through a glass darkly and only now know in part so regardless of how we might think our belief or our group's belief is the most accurate, none of us have it all figured out. What a blow to our pride !

[ken_sylvania]

Dissensions - implies strife or discord and stresses a division into factions. Sounds to me like what has happened to many Anabaptists. Perhaps the most fragmented group in church history.

The city and vicinity where I live in southern Ontario has many Mennonite groups that at some point in time appear to have broken away to 'do church' their way and most all of them have not broken the ethnic barrier. Those that have been more accommodating and broken this ethnic, closed fellowship understanding of a local church would be considered by many as going 'liberal' or 'worldly'.

Dissensions are bound to occur, imo, when a church is more about themselves than it is about a lost and dying world. Dissension is a major tool of satan to make us ineffective in promoting His Kingdom. I have seen it occur too in non-Anabaptist groups even when they are a soul winning church. Satan has his ways of getting his foot in the door and interfering with advancing the Kingdom.

It is amazing to me what the issue or issues are when some churches split. How satan can get Christians to dis-fellowship over the style of a head cover or using zippers over buttons is mind blowing.

I find it bafflingly incoherent when I hear folks say that the local church isn’t terribly important to be a part of, and freelancing oneself through life without a church is fine, and they emphasize being part of the “invisible/universal” church; and then they turn around and express concern and dismay at the people who are forming small church groups. Is church important or not?
What gives? If the universal invisible church is really all that is important, aren’t these small groups part of that? To be part of the invisible church does one have to be part of no church at all, or what?

I believe many today are still 'doing' church' but rather than the traditional way where people had to physically gather together they find they get more fellowship on things such as these forums ....

I think there is a big difference in splitting off into small or large church groups due to group expansion caused by reaching the lost than splitting off due to slight doctrinal differences and/or required group practises. The latter I believe Paul warned us about.

Today we have both a 'computer church' and a 'physical church' opportunity and this 'computer church' fellowship gives me much more to consider about what is going on in the 'universal church'. ...

I suppose the foe option on Mennonet would be the digital equivalent to excommunication then???

[RZehr]

Dissensions - implies strife or discord and stresses a division into factions. Sounds to me like what has happened to many Anabaptists. Perhaps the most fragmented group in church history.

The city and vicinity where I live in southern Ontario has many Mennonite groups that at some point in time appear to have broken away to 'do church' their way and most all of them have not broken the ethnic barrier. Those that have been more accommodating and broken this ethnic, closed fellowship understanding of a local church would be considered by many as going 'liberal' or 'worldly'.

Dissensions are bound to occur, imo, when a church is more about themselves than it is about a lost and dying world. Dissension is a major tool of satan to make us ineffective in promoting His Kingdom. I have seen it occur too in non-Anabaptist groups even when they are a soul winning church. Satan has his ways of getting his foot in the door and interfering with advancing the Kingdom.

It is amazing to me what the issue or issues are when some churches split. How satan can get Christians to dis-fellowship over the style of a head cover or using zippers over buttons is mind blowing.

I find it bafflingly incoherent when I hear folks say that the local church isn’t terribly important to be a part of, and freelancing oneself through life without a church is fine, and they emphasize being part of the “invisible/universal” church; and then they turn around and express concern and dismay at the people who are forming small church groups. Is church important or not?
What gives? If the universal invisible church is really all that is important, aren’t these small groups part of that? To be part of the invisible church does one have to be part of no church at all, or what?

I believe many today are still 'doing' church' but rather than the traditional way where people had to physically gather together they find they get more fellowship on things such as these forums and all the access that is available today to listen to your favourite preacher(s) on TV and/or the Internet.

However, in my own experience, I have tried this 'stay at home' method but have returned to a fellowship of believers in a building, as for me, there was a certain physical presence missing in this type of fellowship. Some have done this through small groups and meet in houses where they find they can grow together without the 'big church' expectations that some have to 'belong' to their church.

We have a group of older saints from our local MB church that meet together where they are more comfortable with 'doing church' in a less modern, worship band style. In whatever group size, the scripture reads that Jesus is with us wherever two or three are gathered together in His name and we should not forsake gathering together. So, I agree the universal church is not a replacement for the local church but rather is the term used to say that 'The Church', when it comes to salvation, is not limited to any group of man created denominations or fellowships or whatever they chose to call themselves.

I believe the challenge is always there, whether small or huge church gatherings, to still be a group of believers who are keen on growing the universal church of Jesus followers. And a small house church setting can evangelize and draw people into their group and when it gets too large break off into another house church group.

I think there is a big difference in splitting off into small or large church groups due to group expansion caused by reaching the lost than splitting off due to slight doctrinal differences and/or required group practises. The latter I believe Paul warned us about.

Today we have both a 'computer church' and a 'physical church' opportunity and this 'computer church' fellowship gives me much more to consider about what is going on in the 'universal church'. More of a picture of how within the universal church there are so many varied doctrines and practises that have developed primarily using the same text Book.

But as scripture says we now see through a glass darkly and only now know in part so regardless of how we might think our belief or our group's belief is the most accurate, none of us have it all figured out. What a blow to our pride !

Thanks, I can appreciate this.