Calling people evil or demonic

[Sudsy]

boot,
Grace clarified her words.
In response to her clarification, do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil?

Good question.

I know it wasn't asked of me but I'll give a reply anyway.

I think there is a problem with me pointing fingers at a person who does certain sinning and instead it should be the sinning itself is what I can point out. I can and should judge what I see the scripture calls sin but I also should remember that 'but for the grace of God, there go I'. Otherwise I might be sinning in thinking more highly of myself than I ought and thus sinning myself.

I don't think it is about being some kind of a pansy or weak Christian for not calling out sin but rather about passing judgments on others as being evil. I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

When world leaders and anyone is despised and hated for their beliefs and actions, that, to me, is sinning. I am not called to point out all the places that sin shows up in the world but rather to point others to the Saviour from sin. In my experience, most people already know they are sinners or it doesn't take much to point out what scripture calls sin. My job is to focus on the remedy but I can get hung up on just identifying kinds of sinning.

Whenever I slip into passing judgment of other people's sins, I could be operating in a similar attitude that the Pharisee had when he said God I am glad I am not like this sinner. A self righteous attitude that does not see his own sinful ways.

I can slip into this view of others when I give way to the flesh and it results in missing out on the abundant life Jesus spoke about.

[Grace]

I know it wasn't asked of me but I'll give a reply anyway.

I think there is a problem with me pointing fingers at a person who does certain sinning and instead it should be the sinning itself is what I can point out. I can and should judge what I see the scripture calls sin but I also should remember that 'but for the grace of God, there go I'. Otherwise I might be sinning in thinking more highly of myself than I ought and thus sinning myself.

I don't think it is about being some kind of a pansy or weak Christian for not calling out sin but rather about passing judgments on others as being evil. I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

When world leaders and anyone is despised and hated for their beliefs and actions, that, to me, is sinning. I am not called to point out all the places that sin shows up in the world but rather to point others to the Saviour from sin. In my experience, most people already know they are sinners or it doesn't take much to point out what scripture calls sin. My job is to focus on the remedy but I can get hung up on just identifying kinds of sinning.

Whenever I slip into passing judgment of other people's sins, I could be operating in a similar attitude that the Pharisee had when he said God I am glad I am not like this sinner. A self righteous attitude that does not see his own sinful ways.

I can slip into this view of others when I give way to the flesh and it results in missing out on the abundant life Jesus spoke about.

The question Temp asked of Boot was:
Do you agree some words, actions, policies, such as mutilation of children, esp for carnal goals, and/or efficient extermination of unborn human life, as gov policies, promoted+paid with public funds, are evil? . He did not answer the question.

That being said, Jesus also said,"by their fruits you shall know them".

Your statement:

I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

That comment is a bit confusing. "Speaking evil" of someone's actions, and saying you "hate that sin", seems to me as one and the same.

[Soloist]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people.

It’s like the song in the Christian Hymnary, there are two commands recorded in the Bible. One verse says, if you love God, you will love those round about us. Man or woman, saint or sinner, bond or free. You are not to love their sins if they should falter, but because they’re human beings just as we.

Yes, Jesus did use harsh names for the Pharisees, which were the religious leaders of the time (although we don’t see him commenting at all about the Romans, who were pretty evil too and endorsed all sorts of wickedness), and I’m not sure what we should do about that, but I think we need to be careful calling anyone, demonic, or the antichrist or anything else like that. I’ve seen people on both sides do that in my personal life and I mostly stay out of the politics on Menno. it always bothered me though about how my dad would say someone like Obama, Hillary or some thing, and was the antichrist, because then he made it sound like that person wasn’t capable of coming to salvation, and it didn’t sound like he was following the model of praying for those in authority. Heard some lady say the same things about trump. A lot of what they promoted was anti-Christ, and I certainly don’t condone that, but they are human beings, in need of a savior, which is one of the reasons why there’s a commandment to pray for them.

[temporal1]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people. ..

If .. boot had simply thanked Grace for her clarification, directed to him, which was short and clear, and which (i believe) has general consensus on this forum, it could have ended right there.

i wish it would have.

What exactly does Trump have to do with this? Have you ever stopped to think about why you have such a compulsion to mention him whenever Grace or Temp criticizes Biden?

I am also criticizing Biden in this thread.

But to me, there's a pretty big difference between criticizing Biden and calling him "demonic" or "evil".
The whole "us versus them" questioning of sanity and morality and all that is a bit much. It's quite literally demonizing.

I apologize for my strong words in calling Biden "demonic" or "evil". I should have used those words in reference to what he promotes and not to him directly. However, I cannot deem mutilating, gender confused children and destroying the lives of the unborn as "not" evil.

[Soloist]

Wife: so, this might be really unpopular, but I actually do agree that maybe we shouldn’t be calling people daemonic, but focus on the sins and not the people. ..

If .. boot had simply thanked Grace for her clarification, directed to him, which was short and clear, and which (i believe) has general consensus on this forum, it could have ended right there.

i wish it would have.

I am also criticizing Biden in this thread.

But to me, there's a pretty big difference between criticizing Biden and calling him "demonic" or "evil".
The whole "us versus them" questioning of sanity and morality and all that is a bit much. It's quite literally demonizing.

I apologize for my strong words in calling Biden "demonic" or "evil". I should have used those words in reference to what he promotes and not to him directly. However, I cannot deem mutilating, gender confused children and destroying the lives of the unborn as "not" evil.

Wife Yes, I do think that it was poor taste to bring up in making this thread, and I don’t want my comment to be targeted. I actually did not read that other thread, although maybe I might have looked at it once, but I certainly don’t want Grace to feel like I’m calling her out. I think it is good to call out sun, but not to target the person themselves, which is actually a little ironic given the creation of this thread being targeted. I think every unregenerated person furthers the agenda of the devil, and sometimes, unfortunately, as Christians can be used as tools of the devil to when we live in the flesh.

[temporal1]

Wife Yes, I do think that it was poor taste to bring up in making this thread, and I don’t want my comment to be targeted. I actually did not read that other thread, although maybe I might have looked at it once, but I certainly don’t want Grace to feel like I’m calling her out. I think it is good to call out sun, but not to target the person themselves, which is actually a little ironic given the creation of this thread being targeted. I think every unregenerated person furthers the agenda of the devil, and sometimes, unfortunately, as Christians can be used as tools of the devil to when we live in the flesh.

Wife, i always look forward to your comments, thank you, and .. be cautious about taking anything “too” personally on this forum of imperfect members. Good communication is hard! Just when you think you’ve got your words together, along comes someone reflecting, “not quite!”

Grace is needed - including for ourselves, which can be hardest of all. Not at the moment, but, in the past, some have been awfully hard on themselves.

i don’t think boot intended anything negative. sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t. so much.

keep posting. your view is appreciated.

[Sudsy]

Your statement:

I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

That comment is a bit confusing. "Speaking evil" of someone's actions, and saying you "hate that sin", seems to me as one and the same.

I'll try to explain better. When I speak of another's sinning, to me, that is passing judgment on them and not just the sin. And especially if their name is used it is a very personal condemnation. Whereas if I have compassion on the sinner ('Father forgive them for they know not what they do') and pray for them, then I see them as one enslaved by sin and need the grace of God to set them free. 2 Timothy 2:1-4

I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

Regarding the underlined - wow, even give thanks for them. That is a far cry from calling them out for their sinful ways, imo. And look at the benefits from this obedience and it is what is good and pleases God as He wants everyone to be saved.

So, just saying, I don't find any room for pointing out the personal sins of all those in authority even though I have failed at times in doing just that. But would welcome reading more of your take on this as we explore how we address evil.

[Grace]

Your statement:

I believe I should not go around speaking evil of someone's actions or beliefs unless I am perfect myself, which only Jesus is. I am to love the sinner but hate the sin wherever sin shows up.

That comment is a bit confusing. "Speaking evil" of someone's actions, and saying you "hate that sin", seems to me as one and the same.

I'll try to explain better. When I speak of another's sinning, to me, that is passing judgment on them and not just the sin. And especially if their name is used it is a very personal condemnation. Whereas if I have compassion on the sinner ('Father forgive them for they know not what they do') and pray for them, then I see them as one enslaved by sin and need the grace of God to set them free. 2 Timothy 2:1-4

I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

Regarding the underlined - wow, even give thanks for them. That is a far cry from calling them out for their sinful ways, imo. And look at the benefits from this obedience and it is what is good and pleases God as He wants everyone to be saved.

So, just saying, I don't find any room for pointing out the personal sins of all those in authority even though I have failed at times in doing just that. But would welcome reading more of your take on this as we explore how we address evil.

Thanks for the response. You have some very valid and thought-provoking points. I did apologize for my words in the other thread. However, I will always call out the sins being promoted in the current day culture.

As pointing out personal sins of those in authority....I wonder how many times some have brought up the former president's sins of adultery, cheating, etc. have been brought up here? To many times to count, that is for sure.

[QuietlyListening]

.I wonder how many times some have brought up the former president's sins of adultery, cheating, etc. have been brought up here? To many times to count, that is for sure.

Grace I agree many have brought up the former presidents sins but if you think about it our present president has been brought up just as often and his sins pointed out.
And just like Trump is brought into Biden threads, Biden is just as quickly brought into Trump threads. So it's seems to be happening both ways. But what we all need to be careful of is name calling vs calling out sin. Calling out sin can be done without name calling.

Sin relating to sex, LGBTQ, abortion are sin and should be called out but so is lying, cheating, using 'faith'/religion for political purposes etc. Sin is sin- is one sin worse than another? When we stand before the Lord we will have to account for our sin and is it covered with the blood of Christ. I don't think we will be asked- was it x sin or y sin etc.

Truthfully it would be nice if both sides of the coin would cease from calling out both our past and present president/s. I truly don't think there is anything new that we haven't heard. We know what they are.
I probably should just not even post this but I have to shake my head over and over- one side calling out the other for doing the thing they have just done on another thread.

[Robert]

If .. boot had simply thanked Grace for her clarification, directed to him, which was short and clear, and which (i believe) has general consensus on this forum, it could have ended right there.

Speak for yourself and not for others.