Calling people evil or demonic

[Robert]

A few years ago someone (who claimed to be a follower of Jesus) posted here, encouraging people to run over black lives matter protestors if they block the road.

I never saw this. It should have been flagged and it would have been dealt with immediately.

WE have had some come in and call us demonic and evil. I do not use the terms loosely either, but at times they are fitting and should be used.

[Josh]

A few years ago someone (who claimed to be a follower of Jesus) posted here, encouraging people to run over black lives matter protestors if they block the road.

I never saw this. It should have been flagged and it would have been dealt with immediately.

WE have had some come in and call us demonic and evil. I do not use the terms loosely either, but at times they are fitting and should be used.

I vaguely recall this but my recollection of it is that Barnhart is not giving the full context. The context was they if protesters repeatedly try to block busy freeways and threaten violence to someone who tries to just pass by, it is eventually justified (from a legal perspective, not an Anabaptist one) to try to drive through a violent crowd to get to safety.

That is a rather different context than claiming “it’s good to drive over BLM protesters and I encourage others to do so”. Barnhart, is my memory correct?

[Szdfan]

I think one of the problems of calling things “evil” and “demonic” is that it ends up taking away the potency of those words if we use them too much. I do believe that evil exists, but if everything I disagree with is “evil” or “demonic,” then nothing is.

When is the line crossed between potent enough and not potent enough? On the "potent level" Is the killing of unborn children and mutilating gender confused children, potent enough to be called "evil"? Just asking and curious to know.

I appreciate the question. I'm prayerfully working on a response, because while I do want to challenge some of your language, I also want to do it in a way that creates more light than heat. I would hope that we might understand each other better than just cause more conflict.

[Bootstrap]

I think one of the problems of calling things “evil” and “demonic” is that it ends up taking away the potency of those words if we use them too much. I do believe that evil exists, but if everything I disagree with is “evil” or “demonic,” then nothing is.

Yes, that's one problem.

Another problem: it demonizes people, portrays them as less than human, and disposable. Jesus did say that the Pharisees were evil, I don't think he used that strong language with the woman caught in adultery, the woman at the well, the tax collector, or even with Roman authorities. In fact, he didn't use that strong language even with Satan in the desert.

Some of the things the Pharisees called out really were serious sin.

[temporal1]

Five pages, wow !
Astounding that a thread targeting me has garnered that many pages, even after I apologized for saying what I did, about the current president.

5+ pages, and counting. funny how that works, eh?
defending the indefensible brings all manner distractions.

[Bootstrap]

Five pages, wow !
Astounding that a thread targeting me has garnered that many pages, even after I apologized for saying what I did, about the current president.

5+ pages, and counting. funny how that works, eh?
defending the indefensible brings all manner distractions.

This is not 5+ pages of targeting Grace, and I really would discourage people from targeting anyone in this thread.

OTOH, I do think we, as Christians, should think about what it means to act as Christians who follow the example of Jesus. That topic really is in scope here. It's easy to point fingers at everyone else, it's more useful to focus on how we should act.

[Sudsy]

Sin is sin- is one sin worse than another?

All sins are not equal, despite what Reformed doctrine or Luther may have taught. This is a key difference in Anabaptism.

It should be obvious that going on a preplanned killing spree is worse than thinking mean thought to someone for a few seconds. Or getting an abortion is a much worse sin than ignoring your children for a few minutes because you are preoccupied with some amusement.

The idea that “all sins are equal” was something the early church didn’t believe either; David Bercot discussed this at the recent AIC.

I would point out what Jesus said about sinning here - Matthew 5:21-22

“You have heard that it was said to an older generation, ‘Do not murder,’ and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment.’ But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.

I take from this that how I may regard sinning as being greater or lesser sinning (i.e. due to the physical damage sin can cause) is one thing but Jesus points out the sinning that I could be doing in my heart and comes out in my talk. How close do I sometimes come to calling someone a 'fool' or implying that using other language ? Seems to me I need to be more careful with my words and according to Jesus those words are an issue of where my heart is, so I need to first focus on getting my heart right.

I believe all sins are equal in the sense that sin separates me from God when I ignore His guidance through the Holy Spirit to change my ways. But I believe I need to also regard in scripture how Jesus looks at sin. Sin is not equal in the obvious sense that speeding in my car is not anything close to me physically killing someone. However, Jesus says I can be guilty of murder in ways of not physically killing someone. I can point a finger at those who kill life in the womb but then go ahead and murder many people by my words. I know I don't give this serious consideration but I need to.

I think James Chapter 3 is a read worth re-reading often when it comes to what I say and also as Jesus points out that the words I use is exposing my heart condition. The words I chose to post here on this forum reveal what is in my heart. And how does that line up with the fruit of the Spirit ? Luke 6:45 -

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

Do others here see this differently ?

[Grace]

Five pages, wow !
Astounding that a thread targeting me has garnered that many pages, even after I apologized for saying what I did, about the current president.

5+ pages, and counting. funny how that works, eh?
defending the indefensible brings all manner distractions.

This is not 5+ pages of targeting Grace, and I really would discourage people from targeting anyone in this thread.

OTOH, I do think we, as Christians, should think about what it means to act as Christians who follow the example of Jesus. That topic really is in scope here. It's easy to point fingers at everyone else, it's more useful to focus on how we should act.

Not every post was targeting me. But the timing of when the thread started reveals it was a response to my post about the president. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

[Bootstrap]

Not every post was targeting me. But the timing of when the thread started reveals it was a response to my post about the president. To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous, in my opinion.

I'm doing my best to not make this thread about you. Perhaps you could help?

I would very much like to discuss how we, as Christians should approach our speech here and elsewhere. It's in "General Theology" for a reason. And I think it would be helpful if we would ALL refrain from talking about what we think is wrong with everyone else in this thread, not try to hold people to account, etc. That's not what this thread is for.

[Grace]

A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.

Do others here see this differently ?

So if a person (current president) is producing and promoting evil things, such as murder of the unborn and mutilating children, is it not from an evil heart? When people promote evil, does it or doesn't it come from their hearts? And is it wrong for Christians to point that evil out?