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Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:36 pm I think it was Renaissance thinkers who called it the Dark Ages, but a lot of modern scholars think we have to take these Renaissance thinkers with a grain of salt.

Based on my Internet sleuthing, the term “Dark Ages” originated with early Renaissance scholar Petrarch, but it’s not a fair or accurate term. When I was in college, I thought about becoming a medievalist, it’s a fascinating period.

Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:16 pm

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:36 pm I think it was Renaissance thinkers who called it the Dark Ages, but a lot of modern scholars think we have to take these Renaissance thinkers with a grain of salt.

Based on my Internet sleuthing, the term “Dark Ages” originated with early Renaissance scholar Petrarch, but it’s not a fair or accurate term. When I was in college, I thought about becoming a medievalist, it’s a fascinating period.

I actually was studying medieval German literature for a year. But I decided there was no future in the Middle Ages.

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:45 pm

Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:16 pm

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 6:36 pm I think it was Renaissance thinkers who called it the Dark Ages, but a lot of modern scholars think we have to take these Renaissance thinkers with a grain of salt.

Based on my Internet sleuthing, the term “Dark Ages” originated with early Renaissance scholar Petrarch, but it’s not a fair or accurate term. When I was in college, I thought about becoming a medievalist, it’s a fascinating period.

I actually was studying medieval German literature for a year. But I decided there was no future in the Middle Ages.

On the other hand, those who don't study history ...

ohio jones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:05 pm

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:45 pm

Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:16 pm
Based on my Internet sleuthing, the term “Dark Ages” originated with early Renaissance scholar Petrarch, but it’s not a fair or accurate term. When I was in college, I thought about becoming a medievalist, it’s a fascinating period.

I actually was studying medieval German literature for a year. But I decided there was no future in the Middle Ages.

On the other hand, those who don't study history ...

Unfortunately medieval studies is not a lucrative job field.

ohio jones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:05 pm On the other hand, those who don't study history ...

FWIW, I really liked this Audiobook, which my library has on Libby:

The Great Ideas of Philosophy, 2nd Edition
Daniel N. Robinson

It covers the broad sweep of the history of thought, including the Middle Ages, which it covers well. Very entertaining and interesting for people interested in these things. I like Audiobooks because I can listen to them while driving or stretching or doing chores.

FWIW, I do think Augustine had some good things to say that we Mennonites are not always receptive to because of his role as Constantine's apologist.

MaxPC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:08 pm

NedFlanders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:55 pm Mennonites believe in the gospel that Jesus preach - the gospel of the Kingdom of God. They aren’t lost in a salvation or a social justice gospel. Being citizens of the heavenly country Mennonites don’t join in an unequal yoke with kingdoms of this world and so have a drastically different view than Constantine and nearly all Protestants. I think it is that simple.

Ned, I certainly see the benefit of this view in promoting maturation in the spiritual walk. It definitely clears out the distractions, particularly in an election year. Was this view present in Anabaptism since the beginning or did it evolve into this perspective?

I think it applies to those who are born again throughout all of church history - at least I believe that is what Christ told us:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

So, yeah, I believe Anabaptism had this view from its onset. I don’t think it formed because of persecution but it was strengthened and emphasized further through persecution.

NedFlanders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:55 pm Mennonites believe in the gospel that Jesus preach - the gospel of the Kingdom of God. They aren’t lost in a salvation or a social justice gospel. Being citizens of the heavenly country Mennonites don’t join in an unequal yoke with kingdoms of this world and so have a drastically different view than Constantine and nearly all Protestants. I think it is that simple.

I agree with that. I would also add:

1. There actually are more and more Protestants who are preaching the Kingdom of God as the core of the Gospel, and doing it well.
2. Not all Mennonites are doing a good job of holding onto this focus.
3. The Kingdom of God does involve justice, and it is social, it's just different from the social gospel we see in most liberal churches and in the world around us.

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:12 pm

NedFlanders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:55 pm Mennonites believe in the gospel that Jesus preach - the gospel of the Kingdom of God. They aren’t lost in a salvation or a social justice gospel. Being citizens of the heavenly country Mennonites don’t join in an unequal yoke with kingdoms of this world and so have a drastically different view than Constantine and nearly all Protestants. I think it is that simple.

I agree with that. I would also add:

1. There actually are more and more Protestants who are preaching the Kingdom of God as the core of the Gospel, and doing it well.
2. Not all Mennonites are doing a good job of holding onto this focus.
3. The Kingdom of God does involve justice, and it is social, it's just different from the social gospel we see in most liberal churches and in the world around us.

I agree with all of this.

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:12 pm

NedFlanders wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:55 pm Mennonites believe in the gospel that Jesus preach - the gospel of the Kingdom of God. They aren’t lost in a salvation or a social justice gospel. Being citizens of the heavenly country Mennonites don’t join in an unequal yoke with kingdoms of this world and so have a drastically different view than Constantine and nearly all Protestants. I think it is that simple.

I agree with that. I would also add:

1. There actually are more and more Protestants who are preaching the Kingdom of God as the core of the Gospel, and doing it well.
2. Not all Mennonites are doing a good job of holding onto this focus.
3. The Kingdom of God does involve justice, and it is social, it's just different from the social gospel we see in most liberal churches and in the world around us.

You maybe right but I have never met one Protestant yet who is preaching the kingdom of God as the core of the Gospel.

I agree with point 2.

And yes of course - God’s judgement ultimately means He will make all things right.

NedFlanders wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:22 pmYou maybe right but I have never met one Protestant yet who is preaching the kingdom of God as the core of the Gospel.

Nor one who thinks that Christians should not involve themselves in civil government and not support the veterans and troops. There are probably a few here and there that are anomalies.