Questions about Communion / Lord's Supper

[Judas Maccabeus]

My understanding was that one was only required to take communion, following confession of course, once within the period between Easter and Pentecost, one’s so called “Easter Duty.”

If I remember correctly, since the Mass is a “sacrifice” one cannot have a Mass without communion.

Since the 4th century weekly Mass has been an obligation. There have been periods when that was relaxed due to availability, pandemics, and other rationales. But the obligation itself was never abrogated.

But communion is most assuredly NOT a weekly duty. You can attend "Mass" without receiving communion.

[Judas Maccabeus]

MaxPC, weekly communion wasn’t instituted until fairly recently, mostly due to pressure from Protestants doing it. I believe Pope Leo made the change in the early 1900s.

The obligation to attend Sunday Mass and take Holy Communion weekly became Church law in the 4th century.

This blog seems to say that weekly attendance at Mass (presumably including participating in communion) was a requirement originated by regional councils that became universal practice, but was not explicitly made a universal requirement until 1917.

Weekly communion is not a universal requirement. If you think it is, I am sure you have the documenttation. Or do you?

[ken_sylvania]

My understanding was that one was only required to take communion, following confession of course, once within the period between Easter and Pentecost, one’s so called “Easter Duty.”

If I remember correctly, since the Mass is a “sacrifice” one cannot have a Mass without communion.

Since the 4th century weekly Mass has been an obligation. There have been periods when that was relaxed due to availability, pandemics, and other rationales. But the obligation itself was never abrogated.

But communion is most assuredly NOT a weekly duty. You can attend "Mass" without receiving communion.

It's seeming like Mass is a weekly duty but communion is an annual duty. Is that about the size of it? I don't think MaxPC said at all that communion is a weekly duty did he?

[ohio jones]

It's seeming like Mass is a weekly duty but communion is an annual duty. Is that about the size of it? I don't think MaxPC said at all that communion is a weekly duty did he?

I don't know how else to parse this:

The obligation to attend Sunday Mass and take Holy Communion weekly became Church law in the 4th century.

[Judas Maccabeus]

It's seeming like Mass is a weekly duty but communion is an annual duty. Is that about the size of it? I don't think MaxPC said at all that communion is a weekly duty did he?

I don't know how else to parse this:

The obligation to attend Sunday Mass and take Holy Communion weekly became Church law in the 4th century.

I suspect you will only hear crickets here.

[ken_sylvania]

It's seeming like Mass is a weekly duty but communion is an annual duty. Is that about the size of it? I don't think MaxPC said at all that communion is a weekly duty did he?

I don't know how else to parse this:

The obligation to attend Sunday Mass and take Holy Communion weekly became Church law in the 4th century.

I suspect you will only hear crickets here.

OK yes you're right.

[JohnHurt]

I don't know how else to parse this:

I suspect you will only hear crickets here.

OK yes you're right.

Friends,

I was raised in the "Church of Christ", we had weekly Communion, and a lot of people showed up once a year for Easter Sunday, just like MaxPC said.

We sung acapella without instruments, and had no central church hierarchy, and we really thought we were totally opposite from the Catholic religion.

But looking back, and after I attended a Catholic church once, it was surprising how much the Catholic church had in common with the "Church of Christ".

The first time I doubted that "Communion" was really started by Christ was after reading a ridiculous "Jack Chick" comic book, so ridiculous as to be laughable, but with enough truth in it to make you ask questions about the whole "Communion" idea. Here is the tract, called "The Death Cookie":

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=0074

Another friend said that if "Communion" really was the "Lord's Supper" , then it was not the "Lord's Snack" or the "Lord's Finger Foods", it was a full blown meal shared between Christians. At the time, I thought what he said was terribly sacrilegious, but he had to hit me over the head with this statement to make me study and find out the truth.

Yes, he was right. It really was a full meal in the 1st Century (Jude 1:12, 1 Cor 11:21), and we remember Christ when we share food as a body of Christ together. Communion only became a "symbol" with a tiny wafer and sip of wine in the 4th Century. It changed from sharing food with the poor to bring them to Christ, to a ritual that shows who is allowed to be a member of the group. It is a control mechanism.

Every Christian Denomination is a splinter, or "reformation" of this 4th Century church. Each denomination may have addressed some of the problems with this 4th Century church, but not all of them. To find the "truth", we would have to drop everything and start over with just the Bible as our guide, and not follow church traditions or the doctrines of men.

To do that, you will always be alone. No church follows the Bible as the only authority. And no one wants to leave the safety and comfort of the "group."

But as God was with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as they walked in the desert, so God walks with us when we are alone, with Him.

So I never do "Communion" now with my family. We celebrate Passover, but lately with a lot less "ritual" and a lot more "obedience" to how God told us to treat each other, following Hosea 6;6

(6) For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Christ quoted this passage twice, in Matt 9:13 and Matt 12:7, and told us to understand what it means, namely that obedience and taking care of our fellow man is more important than any ritual or activity, like keeping a "perfect sabbath", or not associating with sinners to help bring them to repentance.

Thanks,

John

[Judas Maccabeus]

I suspect you will only hear crickets here.

OK yes you're right.

Friends,

I was raised in the "Church of Christ", we had weekly Communion, and a lot of people showed up once a year for Easter Sunday, just like MaxPC said.

We sung acapella without instruments, and had no central church hierarchy, and we really thought we were totally opposite from the Catholic religion.

But looking back, and after I attended a Catholic church once, it was surprising how much the Catholic church had in common with the "Church of Christ".

The first time I doubted that "Communion" was really started by Christ was after reading a ridiculous "Jack Chick" comic book, so ridiculous as to be laughable, but with enough truth in it to make you ask questions about the whole "Communion" idea. Here is the tract, called "The Death Cookie":

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=0074

Another friend said that if "Communion" really was the "Lord's Supper" , then it was not the "Lord's Snack" or the "Lord's Finger Foods", it was a full blown meal shared between Christians. At the time, I thought what he said was terribly sacrilegious, but he had to hit me over the head with this statement to make me study and find out the truth.

Yes, he was right. It really was a full meal in the 1st Century (Jude 1:12, 1 Cor 11:21), and we remember Christ when we share food as a body of Christ together. Communion only became a "symbol" with a tiny wafer and sip of wine in the 4th Century. It changed from sharing food with the poor to bring them to Christ, to a ritual that shows who is allowed to be a member of the group. It is a control mechanism.

Every Christian Denomination is a splinter, or "reformation" of this 4th Century church. Each denomination may have addressed some of the problems with this 4th Century church, but not all of them. To find the "truth", we would have to drop everything and start over with just the Bible as our guide, and not follow church traditions or the doctrines of men.

To do that, you will always be alone. No church follows the Bible as the only authority. And no one wants to leave the safety and comfort of the "group."

But as God was with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as they walked in the desert, so God walks with us when we are alone, with Him.

So I never do "Communion" now with my family. We celebrate Passover, but lately with a lot less "ritual" and a lot more "obedience" to how God told us to treat each other, following Hosea 6;6

(6) For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Christ quoted this passage twice, in Matt 9:13 and Matt 12:7, and told us to understand what it means, namely that obedience and taking care of our fellow man is more important than any ritual or activity, like keeping a "perfect sabbath", or not associating with sinners to help bring them to repentance.

Thanks,

John

First of all, I would not be dismissive of Jack Chick's views either. Although some of it is based on assumption, the following claims could use some examination:

1. The Catholic Church claimed the Communion, and the other Sacraments, it had exclusive control over was the exclusive gateway to salvation, and they had complete control over it. Demonstrably true

2. That it used this to manipulate the population. This claim is demonstrably true, in that the Pope had the ability to issue an interdict (Banning the administration of the Sacraments in a given area, see above) and used that power to manipulate both political leaders and the common fork. Demonstrability True

3. That the Pope had the ability to issue an Indult, making an illicit act licit, at his discretion. The use of this, or denial of this was used to manipulate. Demonstrability True.

4. That the Catholic Church ruthlessly suppressed vernacular translations of the Bible, and did all ti could to keep the Bible from wide circulation. Demonstrability True.

5. That it has used, and continues to use its power to avoid accountability for its deeds. Demonstrability True

6. That its vestments and alter ware were medieval in origin, and deigned to project its power and impress the populace. Demonstrability True

So, there are many of Jack Chick's allegations that are Demonstrability True.. While I do not buy some of the stuff he puts out, where there is smoke, there is almost certainly fire. While the "Death Cookie" is designed for shock value, I would state, that, if you are relying on participation in the sacramental system of the Catholic Church for salvation, you indeed are lost. Only Jesus saves, and the "cookie" is not Jesus, bow down to it as you will. A faith that results in a changed life and discipleship are the only things that can save.

As to your other issues. My home church indeed does a meal, where all share in connection with the service. And while we have guidelines, there are more so that we have a common understanding as to what discipleship looks like. The reason for standards of the sort that we have is discipleship, and have nothing to do with one being in a right relationship with God.

While I would differ with you as to whether or not Christians should celebrate Passover (I would say not, as it had been given to Israel and not the Church) that is not a major point. That we gather is a Biblical mandate, and I hope you are doing that.

Blessings,

JM

[JohnHurt]

Only Jesus saves, and the "cookie" is not Jesus, bow down to it as you will.

The weekly communion at the Church of Christ was a type of idol. I could not see it then, and it is still hard for me to see it now, but it really was something concocted to control people.

The Church of Christ taught that we were the only ones going to heaven, which is another idol and control mechanism.

The Church of Christ also taught me that I was only saved if I was baptized "in the Church of Christ" by full immersion in water and the baptizer had to say "for the remission of sins". Any other baptism in another church was just being dunked in water.

I went to a Missionary Baptist church for a while, and they had the same belief. They said you could only be baptized by a church that had "authority." They traced each church's lineage back to where it had been founded by an earlier church, that passed on this "authority". They could trace all of the Baptist churches back to a single church in England, which they somehow traced back to the 1st Century church, which received the "authority" to baptize from the Apostles, who received it from Christ, who received it from John "the Baptist". That is why they called it "the Baptist" church, because it came from John "the Baptist", who was the very first member of the Baptist church.

Once you are on the membership roll of the Baptist church, you can never leave, except by 3 ways: You can die, you can be proclaimed a heretic, or you can send them a letter and ask to be removed from their membership roll. Once you are saved, you are always saved and always a member of the Baptist church.

I think most churches are not immune to a lot of "cuckoo" ideas. Somebody makes something up that is absolutely crazy, and everybody else joins in. The crazier the better.
Some of my friends became "preterists", then "full blown preterists." They think Jesus came back in 70 AD.

I have gotten a lot of peace by just reading the Words of Christ and ignoring what other men teach.

That we gather is a Biblical mandate, and I hope you are doing that.

Thank you for caring. I really miss the fellowship and singing praises. I would love to hear some good teaching about the Bible.

When you move to a 7th day sabbath, you lose just about every hope of ever finding a local church. Your choices are the Church of Ellen White, the Church of Herbert Armstrong, or the Church of the Judaizers, that is the "Messy Antics" churches where they try to make Christians into Jewish Pharisees, complete with following the Talmud. No thanks to all of them.

God has a plan for me, and I am comfortable in His Arms.

It is always good to hear what you have to say.

Thanks,

John

[JayP]

My God, just when I thought JudMac could not possibly lose more credibility he quotes Jack Chick.

I do not understand the confusion of the other posts. Maybe I am missing something.
Catholics are required to attend Mass on Sunday (or the Sat night vigil mass) and holy days of obligation which vary from area to area. That means a day like Christmas or Feast of the Assumption.

You do not have to take Communion at a Mass, indeed you should not if in a state of mortal sin.
You are required to take communion at least once a year.

Those are the facts. Make of them what you will. I get if you are not Catholic you do not believe what they do, Fine.
But folks seem to be debating what are factual items we can be sure about